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Old 08-17-2006, 09:03 PM
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Default 4140 Questions

Hello, I'm working on my John Deere loader and it needs all four bucket pins replaced. JD wants $26 a piece for the "correct" pins. I am too tight to pay that much for pins if something else will work suitably. I've got a rod of 4140 steel that is the correct diameter will this work well for a bucket pin? The capacity for this loader, er I should say front axle on the tractor is 2,500 #.
I've looked up 4140 on the web and to my untrained mind it seems that it would work but there was some discussion as to heat treating the metal after maching. Will I need to do this to my pins? What I have isn't terribly hard right now (can slice a sliver off with my knife) If so what is invovled, I have a oxy\propane torch and forge to use.
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Old 08-17-2006, 09:59 PM
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Shear strength is what you're after.. You didn't mention what material you will be handling but I'd buy what's affordable and watch for signs of wear and what's under the load.
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  #3  
Old 08-18-2006, 09:37 PM
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Lots of pins in high shear applications are made from AISI/SAE 4140. It is one of the chromium, molybdenum, manganese low alloy steels noted for toughness, good torsional strength and good fatigue strength. It is used in applications requiring good strength & toughness but in which service conditions are only moderately severe . I would guess that your material is Condition A (annealed) in which case it machines well at 100 SFM.

Most of the pins we make at work use 4140 Prehard (4140 Heat Treated) which gives extended service life, as well as greater strength, without the need for additional hardening. You should consider either buying a bar of Prehard, or having the pins sent out for heat treat & temper, or purchasing the pins from John Deere. Pins made from Condition A material will have lower strength & shorter service life than pins that are correctly heat treated.

$100 for four sounds pretty cheap to me, unless the pins are tiny.
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Old 08-19-2006, 01:02 AM
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I would not recomend doing your own heat treat due to 4140 gets brittle at about 58c, for real good wear and toughness 48c is about optimal IIRC from years ago.
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Old 08-19-2006, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by precisionworks
$100 for four sounds pretty cheap to me, unless the pins are tiny.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heat Treater's Guide, 2 ed.
Austenitize (Harden) at 1570F and Quench in oil.
Temper at 1150F
Now do you have a good furnace with a calibrated temperature control? You will also need 5-10 gallons of quenching oil, used motor oil will not work as you will not cool the part fast enough or homogeneously. I would recommend a fast quenching oil something with a 10-12 sec quench speed. Remember you have to heat the pins so that the core temperature is 1570F, I do not know what diameter the pins are. That effects the heating time.

Also remember after heat treating the pins are most likely going to warp so you will have to heat treat the pins while oversized and then either hard turn them or have the finish ground to size.
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Old 08-19-2006, 08:57 AM
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my advice would be buy the pins you need and cut a corner somewhere else thanks,john
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Old 08-19-2006, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
my advice would be buy the pins you need and cut a corner somewhere else
Roger that

We make any number of pins at work, from 1/2" up to 4" diameter. One pin is pretty detailed - saw to length, turn the OD to X.XXX", leaving a half inch thick 'head' at full diameter, face & chamfer both ends, drill one through hole. Takes no more than 15 minutes per pin, once the lathe is dialed in & the Bridgeport vise & stop are set. You wouldn't believe what these pins sell for, it's many times more than John Deere wants.
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Old 08-20-2006, 11:20 AM
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What fluxcoreit said,after all they are "right" out of the box most of the time
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Old 08-21-2006, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westside
What fluxcoreit said,after all they are "right" out of the box most of the time
Well, if I used them they would be the only 'right' parts on the loader It has been used hard and put away wet it's whole life. It will need every pin (12) replaced and all the bores welded and drilled to be 'right' along with most hydraulic hoses replaced, cylinders repacked and one new rod..........

Right now it has 3/4" farm store wagon pins in the 1" bore, which was how the dairy I bought it from used it to load manure (very heavy) in the 84" bucket. I guess I'll just use it as it is since it has worked this long.
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Old 09-24-2006, 01:52 PM
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The wagon pins from a farm store would be good, we used them for replacement bucket pins, common bolts would work too. The pins on this loader are not engineered within an inch of its life.
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