Shop Floor Talk  

Go Back   Shop Floor Talk > Welding and Metalworking Forums > Welding

SFT Search:   
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-22-2022, 08:50 PM
Gadgeteer's Avatar
Gadgeteer Gadgeteer is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern Montana
Posts: 2,114
Default Bad bottle, again.

This is, really, getting old. Couple weeks ago I was in the middle of a simple project, gluing together a handrail for the front stoup. I was congratulating myself for the beautiful, shiny mild steel beads on the filets, as the gas was decreasing in the tank. Then, the tank was just a few pounds from empty, so I called the LWS. Told me a fresh Q tank would be in on Friday. Called LWS on Friday to make sure they had fresh bottle before driving 25 miles to pick it up. No bottles. Clerk said he had a stubby of Argon, so I drove to pick it up.

Hooked up when I got home and went back to railing project. Gas inclusion in beads, so I switched to aluminum. Hard to establish bead, carbon contamination, little to no etching along beads. When I attempt to introduce rod into the puddle the end of the rod, immediately, balls up, inside a glob of crud. Just junk. 2,000 psi, running at 10 to 20 CFH at torch. Only difference in setup was new bottle.

I've had several bottles with bad gas, but it didn't show up until pressure got to about 500 psi.

Does anyone have tips on a sure-fire way to test jugs for gas quality?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Crud 2.jpg
Views:	123
Size:	197.0 KB
ID:	164442   Click image for larger version

Name:	Crud.jpg
Views:	123
Size:	203.7 KB
ID:	164443   Click image for larger version

Name:	After Dry Ice.jpg
Views:	124
Size:	205.6 KB
ID:	164444  

Last edited by Gadgeteer; 04-22-2022 at 08:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-22-2022, 09:02 PM
arizonian's Avatar
arizonian arizonian is online now
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 1,924
Default

I'm confused. From steel to aluminum without changing anything but the bottle and filler mat'l?
__________________
Bill in sunny Tucson

I believe in gun control.

Gun Control: The ability to consistently hit what you are aiming at.

Weldor by choice, engineer by necessity.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-22-2022, 09:12 PM
Gadgeteer's Avatar
Gadgeteer Gadgeteer is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern Montana
Posts: 2,114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by arizonian View Post
I'm confused. From steel to aluminum without changing anything but the bottle and filler mat'l?
Perhaps, you're easily confused.

After running old bottle down... I unhooked it... leaving gauges, hose, torch as was.

When I got home with new "stubby" I hooked up the untampered gauge, hose, torch that were just the same, as I had left them. So, the only thing that was different in the setup was the new bottle of gas. But, after changing only the bottle, the beads on steel were showing signs of inclusion of something (gas?) that ruined the beads, not at all like the ones I had achieved with the old bottle of Argon.

To further test for bad gas I switched over to aluminum by throwing the conversion switch on the machine from steel to aluminum. Didn't think I'd have to draw a picture to help you understand my methods.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-22-2022, 10:39 PM
arizonian's Avatar
arizonian arizonian is online now
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 1,924
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadgeteer View Post
Perhaps, you're easily confused.

After running old bottle down... I unhooked it... leaving gauges, hose, torch as was.

When I got home with new "stubby" I hooked up the untampered gauge, hose, torch that were just the same, as I had left them. So, the only thing that was different in the setup was the new bottle of gas. But, after changing only the bottle, the beads on steel were showing signs of inclusion of something (gas?) that ruined the beads, not at all like the ones I had achieved with the old bottle of Argon.

To further test for bad gas I switched over to aluminum by throwing the conversion switch on the machine from steel to aluminum. Didn't think I'd have to draw a picture to help you understand my methods.
Mea culpa
__________________
Bill in sunny Tucson

I believe in gun control.

Gun Control: The ability to consistently hit what you are aiming at.

Weldor by choice, engineer by necessity.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-23-2022, 09:15 AM
Ironman's Avatar
Ironman Ironman is offline
Iron Modification Investigator
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Warburg, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 16,672
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadgeteer View Post
Only difference in setup was new bottle.

I've had several bottles with bad gas, but it didn't show up until pressure got to about 500 psi.

Does anyone have tips on a sure-fire way to test jugs for gas quality?
This looks like, from the pictures, as if the laminar flow is disrupted and pulling air into the mix. I would start to look elsewhere at this point. The odds of getting 2 bad bottles in a row are astronomical.
I had a similar issue a few years back, and I solved it by putting a .025" flow restrictor in line at the machine to prevent a surge of gas when I pulled the trigger. Every time I started it took an inch or more for the bead to quit foaming and become satisfactory.

As a test, try backing down the flow meter to 1/2 what you are using now and see if it makes a difference. You can get the same disruption to flow with a super dirty gas shield, but I doubt if that is your issue.
__________________
Gerry
You got freedom of speech, if you don't say too much.
Aaron Neville.

When a liberal screams racism, you can bet they were also born with white skin.

The countries whom the gods would destroy they first make green. Rex Murphy
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-23-2022, 09:29 AM
Ironman's Avatar
Ironman Ironman is offline
Iron Modification Investigator
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Warburg, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 16,672
Default

Here is the laminar flow info I was talking about about in a video.
They are pedaling their product but the information is still valid.
__________________
Gerry
You got freedom of speech, if you don't say too much.
Aaron Neville.

When a liberal screams racism, you can bet they were also born with white skin.

The countries whom the gods would destroy they first make green. Rex Murphy
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-23-2022, 03:02 PM
camdigger's Avatar
camdigger camdigger is offline
Roving Reporter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Central Oilberta
Posts: 4,199
Default

These posts make me think I did the right thing by getting rid of my MIG and going exclusively to flux only processes.
__________________
Design to 0.001", measure to 1/32", cut with an axe, grind to fit..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-23-2022, 03:52 PM
toprecycler's Avatar
toprecycler toprecycler is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Petoskey, Michigan
Posts: 6,267
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
This looks like, from the pictures, as if the laminar flow is disrupted and pulling air into the mix. I would start to look elsewhere at this point. The odds of getting 2 bad bottles in a row are astronomical.
I had a similar issue a few years back, and I solved it by putting a .025" flow restrictor in line at the machine to prevent a surge of gas when I pulled the trigger. Every time I started it took an inch or more for the bead to quit foaming and become satisfactory.

As a test, try backing down the flow meter to 1/2 what you are using now and see if it makes a difference. You can get the same disruption to flow with a super dirty gas shield, but I doubt if that is your issue.

I don’t think he said he had two bad bottles in a row, just the last time he he had it happen the tank was nearing empty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Brian

You don't know what you don't know.

"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." John Wooden
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-24-2022, 08:53 AM
Oscar's Avatar
Oscar Oscar is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Laredo, Tx
Posts: 83
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadgeteer View Post
Gas inclusion in beads?
I would like to know exactly what you mean by this. A picture is worth a thousand words, as they say.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-24-2022, 12:42 PM
Ironman's Avatar
Ironman Ironman is offline
Iron Modification Investigator
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Warburg, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 16,672
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
I would like to know exactly what you mean by this. A picture is worth a thousand words, as they say.
See this site.
If you cut or grind open a weld bead and you see worm holes in the bead, that's gas inclusion, and not from the shielding gas.
__________________
Gerry
You got freedom of speech, if you don't say too much.
Aaron Neville.

When a liberal screams racism, you can bet they were also born with white skin.

The countries whom the gods would destroy they first make green. Rex Murphy
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Web Search:

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.