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  #11  
Old 06-23-2005, 11:41 AM
Franz Franz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatfrank
Franz............you trying to say something about my fit-up techniques?
Not at all Frank, just pointing out a known fact.
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  #12  
Old 06-23-2005, 11:50 AM
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Scott V Scott V is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatfrank
Kind of on the same topic. I have just been running flux core in my HH175 lately because I can make solid welds without grinding all the mill scale off my joints. If I do get a more powerful mig will I be able to burn through mill scale on new metal with solid wire? If I won't be able to, I probly won't upgrade, I'll just keep running fluxcore in my HH175

The bigger unit will allow you to use gas shielded flux-core wire for vertical welds like this. One side was a horizontal fillet weld and the other was a vertical up all at the same machine settings. It was the new/old time esab 717 wire.
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  #13  
Old 06-23-2005, 01:08 PM
fatfrank fatfrank is offline
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Will gas shielded flux-core allow you to burn through more than self shielded flux-core? If so is it a significant difference?
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  #14  
Old 06-23-2005, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franz
Also, there is definitely a lot less depositable metal in a foot of .035 fluxcore than there is in a foot of .035 solid wire. Less metal means the same amount of electrical power in the arc gives you more heat. More heat means you can deposit more metal, and dig deeper, even if it takes more feet of wire to do it.
Now, this is where the logic begins to break down for me: if amperage increases with the amount of metal being fed into the weld (via increased wire speed), and if there is less metal in flux core (being a hollow tube) than in solid wire, then how does the resulting lesser amount of metal being deposited add up to greater heat?
Moreover, consulting the omnipresent door chart settings for 1/8th in. metal & using .035 wire for instance, with fluxcore the numbers are 14.5 volts at 180wfs while for ER70S-6 solid wire with C-25, it recommends 17.0 volts at 245 wfs. So again, I ask how does that result in more heat with fluxcore wire?
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  #15  
Old 06-23-2005, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutter
Now, this is where the logic begins to break down for me
...............

I hate to say this, (and I agree with you about the logic part).....but sometimes "logic" needs to be thrown out the window !

Case-in-point: When I was in embalming school, there was a fluid company that marketed an oil-based embalming fluid. (solouble oil, evidentally).......I asked the rep. "How can an oil-based fluid do it's job (embalming fluid, by it's very nature, has to easily penetrate tissue) when bodies are primarily water ?

He just smiled at me and asked: "Have you ever used this fluid" ? I said "Yes".....He said: "Did it do the job" ?....I said: "Yes".......He then said: "Then what are you complaining about" ?

MORAL OF THE STORY: "If it works, don't try to find a problem with it" !
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  #16  
Old 06-23-2005, 09:20 PM
JTMcC. JTMcC. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutter
Now, this is where the logic begins to break down for me: if amperage increases with the amount of metal being fed into the weld (via increased wire speed), and if there is less metal in flux core (being a hollow tube) than in solid wire, then how does the resulting lesser amount of metal being deposited add up to greater heat?
Moreover, consulting the omnipresent door chart settings for 1/8th in. metal & using .035 wire for instance, with fluxcore the numbers are 14.5 volts at 180wfs while for ER70S-6 solid wire with C-25, it recommends 17.0 volts at 245 wfs. So again, I ask how does that result in more heat with fluxcore wire?
200 amps is 200 amps, wether your using it to melt a stick electrode, a solid wire or a flux core wire.
But when you are melting a flux core wire you really get maximum bang for your 200 amp buck. Like I said, the 200 amps are focused into a narrower arc stream with flux core, giving you quite a bit more penetration. And, the flux core wire is resistance heated much more than the solid wire (because of it's smaller cross section area) and is almost at it's melting point when it reaches the arc, this gives you big time deposition. Those two things let you wring the most work out of whatever amount of amperage you have to work with.
Current density, it's where it's at with cored wires.


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  #17  
Old 06-23-2005, 10:27 PM
Franz Franz is offline
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Muchos Grassya$$ JT, I couldn't fish Arc Density up out of my brain last night to save my a$$.

Cutter, there are a few things in welding that defy most laws of logic, and some laws of physics, till you factor in a whole lot of things like magnetism and durrent flow direction. That's why the guys in suits and ties write books about welding, and some of the suits can even put a weld in. A few decades back, a fellow stood in front of me and proved you can hang a weld overhead with an O/A torch, and make it look pretty damn good. Till I saw it happen, I wouldn't have believed it. That old boy had no explanation for the hows and whys, he just knew how to do it. Some time later, I ran into another guy who explained things relative to surface tension. Putting 2 and 2 together, I pretty much concluded surface tension has a lot to do with how an overhead O?A weld stays where it is, and hopefully where you want it. Add that to Red Clelland who always said the most important thing abut welding is knowing when to STOP, you can understand a lot of what happens. Generally, if you don't stop in time, you get to fill a hole.
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  #18  
Old 06-23-2005, 10:52 PM
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Well, I thought Arc density was why he can't learn to post pictures but if you two say it contributes to weld penetration, then I can accept that but I still have a hunch that the absence of shielding gas must have something to do with it, too because there is a difference in the effects of say, C-25 & straight CO2 owing to the different temperatures.

And btw, DDA52 is going to be a happy camper tonight.
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  #19  
Old 06-23-2005, 11:20 PM
Franz Franz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutter
Well, I thought Arc density was why he can't learn to post pictures but if you two say it contributes to weld penetration, then I can accept that but I still have a hunch that the absence of shielding gas must have something to do with it, too because there is a difference in the effects of say, C-25 & straight CO2 owing to the different temperatures.

And btw, DDA52 is going to be a happy camper tonight.
Now, yer confusing arc density with ArcyBDense. Totally different laws of physics.
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  #20  
Old 06-23-2005, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutter
but I still have a hunch that the absence of shielding gas must have something to do with it

Then consider dual shield wire, flux core wired designed to be run with gas. And all of the above still applies. They still have a large advantage in penetration and deposition rate. Still due to current density.

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