Tight Lug Nuts!

[Gadgeteer]

Okay... what’s going on here?

CW Grizz wrote....

The lugs on Fords, Chryslers, and many others had a left and right hand threads. The left hand threads were on the left side (driver's side) of the vehicle and the right hand were on the right side (passenger side) of the vehicle. The theory was that as the vehicle went forward the rotation of the wheels would keep the lug nuts or bolts tight.

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Then kbs2444 followed with...

I think I learned the "leftside is right hand, right side is left hand" rule on a 1957 Plymouth.

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These two theories, as stated above, are exactly the opposite.

As I recall, the hub nuts on my 1963 Healey 3000 with wire wheels and “knock-on” hubs were right hand threads on the left (driver’s) side and left hand threads on the right (passenger’s) side. (I just checked my factory repair manual and this is correct.)

I could be wrong, but, as I see it, any effect of rotational forces of the wheels would only apply to “hub” nuts, not wheel nuts. It just seems silly that the direction of rotation of a wheel would have any effect on whether or not wheel nuts stay tight.

I’d be happy to hear from a mechanical engineer on this subject.

Gadgeteer

[Crithpy Critter]

hey Gadeteer,

Now you know why Detroit is in he shape it's in....

[Roundrocktom]

Gadgeteer

Left hand threads on left side. Worked in a "service station" in the 1970's as a kid. Still remember the owners son snapping about three studs in a row off the drivers side of a car as he Dad was running into the bay yelling "stop!".

Best one... replaced the snapped off studs with what he had in stock... yep right hand thread. Owner was in a rush to get on the road, didn't want to wait so went out with two lefties, three rights on that wheels... and you know one ticked off tire place for years to come.

[markct]

Originally Posted by kbs2244

So, I guess I got which side is which wrong?
Maybe because they don't do it on cars anymore. When everybody when to power wrench’s, they got the bolts tight enough that somebody decided it wasn't going to come off by itself. And besides, the kids at the tire stores kept stripping the threads when they forgot to reverse the wrench.
I do believe the big trucks still do it though. Some of those lug nuts are pretty big and could build of some rotational inertia.

nope the big trucks use iso standard 20mm studs with 33 mm hex nuts, all right handed, and i see alot of wheels and tires on our fleet at work and havent had many loosening problems, but they are tight, 450ftlbs and always some lube on them neverseize or oil, dry they will gall the threads after a while, i would in the refuse industry so we get alot of flat tires, everyday we are changing at least one tire

[midmosandblasting]

Somewhere or the other I have it in my head it was a patent deal.You had to license the left right wheel lugs. I think this was one of the GM fights as to why they did not go that route. There was the same deal on SAFTY HUMPS on Wheels .Chrysler held the patent and the rest of them paid or had not until DOT said bead humps require on 5 deg bead seat road wheels.15 deg never had as tire stiiffness makes mounting issues.

[Norm W]

markct, I have what most people would call an "antique." It's a 1953 GMC PD4104 coach that I've made into a camper. The wheels are "Budds" and the inner and outer lug nuts on the left side are left hand. We also run a farm wagon running gear that has wood spoked wheels that are held on a tapered shaft with a single hub nut. As these wagons were seldom backed, the hub nuts were not pinned in place. The wheel rotation kept them tight, so the left side had to be left hand thread or the wheel would have spun them off. I think the "left hand for left side" was just a carry over habit from the early days. I'm not sure when the change over to single right hand nut happened, it made getting rims a choice of hub centered (single nut), lug centered (double nut) or ledge and wedge. But, I could be wrong. Norm

[kbs2244]

450 ft lbs ?!?
How big is that wrench?

[hench861]

the company i work for makes security and automotive fasteners,we did testing on the use of never seize on lugnuts and torque retaining fasteners and the tests showed that neverseize use reduced torque retention on a 1/2-20 cone seat style lugnut,when torqued to 90 foot pounds dry,when 90 fp with never seize torque was reduced to 72 fpounds and actually loosened under a load,all our packaging recommends lps2 or a similiar dry type lube only,we did same type of testing on large trucks too,with same results,

[Gadgeteer]

Originally Posted by hench861

the company i work for makes security and automotive fasteners,we did testing on the use of never seize on lugnuts and torque retaining fasteners and the tests showed that neverseize use reduced torque retention on a 1/2-20 cone seat style lugnut,when torqued to 90 foot pounds dry,when 90 fp with never seize torque was reduced to 72 fpounds and actually loosened under a load,all our packaging recommends lps2 or a similiar dry type lube only,we did same type of testing on large trucks too,with same results,

Would you clarify your statement of, "...when 90 fp with never seize torque was reduced to 72 fpounds..." Does that mean that when you used never seize you torqued to only 72, or did you torque to 90, then checked later and found only 72?

[Sberry]

I am not a big fan of never seize everywhere either. We use it where heat is a factor and thats about it.