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  #31  
Old 03-12-2019, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Camaro Zach View Post
no need to get all bent out of shape. I agree with the wording Just pointing out in the gas world it is called something different.
It sure is... and even nowadays its getting changed into being called something else with a lot of products including parts for automotive... Just to justify the cost, if it sounds more technical it can be sold as such, dawning a new higher price...
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  #32  
Old 03-12-2019, 08:28 AM
threepiece threepiece is offline
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Originally Posted by MetalWolf View Post
It sure is... and even nowadays its getting changed into being called something else with a lot of products including parts for automotive... Just to justify the cost, if it sounds more technical it can be sold as such, dawning a new higher price...
HAHAHA I can see it now. "THESE SPECIALLY DESIGNED PUSH TUBES ARE LIGHT WEIGHT BUT STRONG. THEY HAVE A .312" DIAMETER ORFICE THAT ALLOWS 100% MORE OIL TO REACH THE UPPER VALVE TRAIN THAN SOLID PUSHRODS!

To me a pipe is called pipe, tube is called tube and rod is called rod. Making a coat rack out of schedule 40 doesn't mean it suddenly becomes tubing.
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Last edited by threepiece; 03-12-2019 at 08:35 AM.
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  #33  
Old 03-12-2019, 08:56 AM
threepiece threepiece is offline
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Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
Threepiece, you are going really anal about a simple device.
The seven other engine builders that I showed this lifter to would disagree with you, including the shop owner who machined my engine. None of these people have ever seen a lifter like this one. All of them thought the lifter may be defective.
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  #34  
Old 03-12-2019, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by threepiece View Post
The seven other engine builders that I showed this lifter to would disagree with you, including the shop owner who machined my engine. None of these people have ever seen a lifter like this one. All of them thought the lifter may be defective.
Here is my point You mentioned your using a performance camshaft...

?? I assume the lifters came with the camshaft... Correct or incorrect??

If so Use the Lifters that came with the camshaft... "UNLESS THE CAM IS OEM STOCK" use OEM stock lifters


then it doesn't make a crap one way or the other as to the brand of stock lifter used... As you mentioned getting another OEM set to use with this Camshaft...

The differences in lifters from hydraulic to solid
Solid you adjust the lash to each i.e. adjustable each valve to clearance and is done periodically As where hydraulic lifter the only thing you are doing once the hydraulic lifter is pumped up is setting them to pre-load and that is it PERIOD!

As for tubes or push rods In gas application, they both do the same thing one is hollow the other is a solid rod with a hole in the center to bring oil to the valvetrain and the type of cup or ball end on the tube/rod for alignment and rotation hydraulic are hardened thin-walled and solid ar the same whit thicker wall They in gas application do exactly the same function nothing more!

Now when using STOCK OEM lifters on "A" and "ANY" Performance camshaft small, mild or aggressive the lifter is designed to be able to keep up with the rotation of the SAID camshaft! Stock Lifters cannot keep up with a performance camshaft this is where you will end up with dishing in the lifter and lobe flattening (i.e.) a screwed up camshaft...
That will happen sometimes fairly quick within 5k miles of running and sometimes 20k plus miles run time... and the long term this is going on you are also burning valve seats and valves.

SO the Lifers are in no way defective and if your worried send then back and have them replace them with a new set! those lifters are designed to the camshaft... and to run and keep up with the rotation of the camshaft...

There are numerous articles on this buy some of the top builders in the country and they will say nothing different than I just have!
I am Only trying to save you a lot of headaches down the road and even on the first startup... Is all... nothing more...

But with all that being said about this that and the other!
Did the camshaft come with the lifter set???

If it did not and this is piece together cam and lifters Then I don't know what to tell you... other than your going to have issues sooner or later
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  #35  
Old 03-12-2019, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SmokinDodge View Post
A tube is hollow.

A rod is solid.
Although the name is a misnomer, calling the rod/tube that goes from the lifter/tappet to the rocker arm a "pushrod" has been done for decades. In most contemporary automotive OHV engines I know of, that is what they are called even though they are hollow. Even with solid lifters, the tube still provides oiling for the top end (rockers, valve stems, etc. If the rod is solid, the top end must receive it oiling from another location.

I second the motion that you should use the lifters that came with the cam "kit"...

PS: and be sure to use "break-in" lube on the lobes of the cam and bottom of lifters.
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  #36  
Old 03-13-2019, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by mccutter View Post
Although the name is a misnomer, calling the rod/tube that goes from the lifter/tappet to the rocker arm a "pushrod" has been done for decades. In most contemporary automotive OHV engines I know of, that is what they are called even though they are hollow. Even with solid lifters, the tube still provides oiling for the top end (rockers, valve stems, etc. If the rod is solid, the top end must receive it oiling from another location.

I second the motion that you should use the lifters that came with the cam "kit"...

PS: and be sure to use "break-in" lube on the lobes of the cam and bottom of lifters.
I started learning to build performance engines when I was oh 14 er 15
from two of the top builders in San Antonio guess that's been about some 30ish plus years ago... and brake in lube, it was the to-do thing then and now for most stock engines running flat bottom lifters...

So all this it's a tube or its a rod a rod is solid a tube is hollow doesn't add up to a DAM thing period! this has all became about discussing what the white shit in chicken shit, and its nothing more... Than just more chicken shit"
none of it means Jack crap! than to try to sound more intelligent than another...

what matters is the wall thickness of pushrod used in the applicable application... No, you would not use hollow wall pushrods on a solid lifter they will bend no matter what.... and you would not use solid wall push rods on Hydraulic lifters... due to the weight added to the valvetrain function...

And so it is called a (pushrod) because that is its function it pushes and acts as the oil feeder to the top of the valvetrain...

Other types of engines designed with rocker trees and no (pushrod) system where valves are actuated by lifter to an adjustable and or non adjustable tappets... which are fed oil by way of passages or feeder line and or ports where oil is brought to the top of the valvetrain are then flooded by the rocker arm tree...

Now for setting up an engine for stock normal everyday use... follow the normal procedures for setting up a normal tight engine where you will follow all normal break-in procedures (i.e.) run 45 min to an hour, Yes using the break-in lube for the camshaft and lifters to seat to the camshaft... at 1500?1800 RPM's and then go through the retorque for all gasketed bolt-ons where required by procedure if required... the drive the car/truck or whatever the build was for 500 fairly easy miles meaning normal driving no romping or rat racing...the once that has been achieved normal HWY driving for a suggested total of 1500 miles not to exceed 3500 rpm. this is only suggested break-in period for fresh stock build engine... its what I was thought in automotive tec school...

So now later on in life by the time I was 18 I met my wife GF at the time and my soon to be, father-in-law worked building NASCAR engines for a company
And That's where I learned things that I thought went against all I knew and learned in Tech school and one thing he said that stuck with me was if you build an engine and you can't easily spin the crank and pistons (i.e.) in the short block with your bare hand it is not right! true High-performance engines are set up loose for the purpose of racing...

what I learned from him on top of everything else... made a difference in our engines my wife, and I use to build...
he taught me how to lap the cam lobes and bottom of the lifters to give them a pre-brake in... same with polishing the bearings... Now I did screw the pooch a time or two getting into big a hurry but still, I carry every little trick I've learned about engine building over the years from him and many others...

I do not suggest anyone do this if you haven't done it before it takes lots of time... he also thought me how to blueprint and balance which I found that to be a big rip off by the general builder shops cause anyone can do this Simple as first grade...
Same with porting and polishing heads but for stock applications, none of this is even remotely necessary... and a waste of time in stock applications...

But with what my father-in-law always said in performance engine building if you build it and you can't back it out on to the street and Just stand on it in a 1/4 mile without it blowing... you just didn't build it right... now this was all old school... and a lot has changed with the new high compression engines of today And with the engines of today as far as building performance engines of today (i.e.) computerized... there is a whole nother world I know very, very little about... But there is still nothing like an old school alcohol/gasser and Raw American muscle...
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  #37  
Old 03-13-2019, 12:22 AM
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So now let us all get back to helping "threepiece" with sorting out his lifter issue
without the argumentative... difference of opinion on what a push rod or tube is or is called...

So threepiece... first what is the year model of the ford 400
Is this a stock engine?
Is this an all fresh engine build?
what are the camshaft specks.?
Is the Camshaft a cam and lifter set?
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  #38  
Old 03-13-2019, 02:39 AM
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Last rebuild I did the machine shop that did the work told be the breakin procedure was 20 to 55 3 times then drive it like you stole it .It was a loose build .I lost track of the truck with the engine having 350,000 on rebuild .
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  #39  
Old 03-13-2019, 10:10 AM
threepiece threepiece is offline
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Originally Posted by MetalWolf View Post
So now let us all get back to helping "threepiece" with sorting out his lifter issue
Indeed,

I disassembled a lifter yesterday to help shed some light on its workings. This is a lifter I bought from Crower nearly six years ago and appears to have the same condition as the new ones. I simply refuse to believe Crower has been selling defective lifters for this amount of time or at all.

There appears to be two check valves in this lifter. A check valve at the bottom operates as normal on most lifters and a second check valve at the push tube seat (HAHAH). The seat is a separate piece with what looks to be a reed type valve under it. I think the intention here is to prevent oil from back flowing at high engine speeds when the lifter is on the return stroke.

I find it odd that I could not find any information about this strange lifter and that the representative from Crower that I spoke to made no reference to its unusual design. Crower told me that I was the only person to ever question it.
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  #40  
Old 03-13-2019, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by threepiece View Post
Indeed,

I disassembled a lifter yesterday to help shed some light on its workings. This is a lifter I bought from Crower nearly six years ago and appears to have the same condition as the new ones. I simply refuse to believe Crower has been selling defective lifters for this amount of time or at all.

There appears to be two check valves in this lifter. A check valve at the bottom operates as normal on most lifters and a second check valve at the push tube seat (HAHAH). The seat is a separate piece with what looks to be a reed type valve under it. I think the intention here is to prevent oil from back flowing at high engine speeds when the lifter is on the return stroke.

I find it odd that I could not find any information about this strange lifter and that the representative from Crower that I spoke to made no reference to its unusual design. Crower told me that I was the only person to ever question it.
Ok, So, I think where the confusion is, Is setting the preload. preload cannot be set until the lifter is at its primed stage. primed with oil.

What some articles one might read or be reading on preloading, lifter test and push rod/tube lengths test and function are and can be a bit confusing Just as my lack of ability to express what it isI'm saying to others in my post...

So what it is talking about is checking preload for measuring "for" proper push/tube length to do this it cannot be done without the proper tools and lightweight spring set/s. So forget all that. it's not what you are trying to do here. well, that is, what I am assuming.

So, your concern is the lifter design and how it appears to be defective...
The lifter is normal and not defective in appearance in the pics it appears to me to be just the same as any other hydraulic lifter...
My concern for your issues with this is you mentioned a small mild performance cam... for towing needs. it is always best to buy the lifters for that cam not just any old brand of lifters... been there done that, Spill here.
Just leans towards issues later is all I'm saying.

In your situation, you need to soak the lifters pump them up by hand install them and set your preload valve by valve the retainer will no longer be an issue in appearance after... once you set the preload to give the adjustment nut 1 full turn. then after the engine is running you can go along each valve and adjust the rockers "Once its squirting oil everywhere and adjust any and all that are too tight or too loose... then you are in zero of your preload center and you are done...

run it to the break-in period and do use the break-in lube for the cam and lifters... if a lifter bleeds down yeah you have a bad lifter but I have never seen this with any brand of new lifters.

although I have seen new ones that will not prime due to improper assembly or were not machined properly and just stuck because it was not able to travel in the insert pistons... unless that is an issue then id just use them...
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