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  #21  
Old 03-11-2019, 12:40 PM
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Well since these aren't roller lifters I'm going to assume this isn't going to be a high rev engine. What I can see is there's no real way to measure the clearance so eye ball them close, start the engine and snug up the ones that are ticking. I know it sounds wrong to do it that way but it works, it's a hydraulic lifter they were designed for convenience. People weren't adjusting valves so why not take that need away. Heck people don't adjust diesel valves as often as they should. It's not uncommon to see a tractor engine at 5000 hours that hasn't had the valve cover off let alone injectors checked. By that time it should have been done 4-5 times.
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  #22  
Old 03-11-2019, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Dean View Post
Well since these aren't roller lifters I'm going to assume this isn't going to be a high rev engine. What I can see is there's no real way to measure the clearance so eye ball them close, start the engine and snug up the ones that are ticking. I know it sounds wrong to do it that way but it works, it's a hydraulic lifter they were designed for convenience. People weren't adjusting valves so why not take that need away. Heck people don't adjust diesel valves as often as they should. It's not uncommon to see a tractor engine at 5000 hours that hasn't had the valve cover off let alone injectors checked. By that time it should have been done 4-5 times.
I would agree with you as well on this other than I'm not sure if this is a fresh build or performance engine or just a stock plain repair job...

regardless the lifters need to be hand pumped in fresh oil and be sure oil is quickly supplied to them once started... so In general, if this is a normal stock application! indeed that is the way most do it I've have done it that way many times.

but generally using hydraulic lifters once adjusted it is rare they need
re-adjusting "again" other than If new lifters and cam are installed once the cam has seated to the lifters then I would readjust them and that would be it forever more...
And generally, once all this is done with hydraulic lifters if one or many starts to tap its usually due to a weak lifter or from being over-revved and just plain need to be replaced... and check cam lobe wear, and lifter lobe wear as one will be worn either lifter has dished on bottom or cam lobe is worn down enough to get lifter slap...

Now when talking solid lift lifters, Well that's a need to adjust every so often mileage wise in a stock engine... But a performance engine may have the need to be adjusted more often. But when the big dawg cams like listed above in the Camero it will need valves adjusted or at least checked before each run... In which I hope to have it up and rolling again this summer...

Now roller lifters eh their always been a pain in the ass and expensive to boot... when you're trying to build something with a real Wevoe's
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  #23  
Old 03-11-2019, 08:16 PM
threepiece threepiece is offline
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The only performance upgrade on this engine is a towing camshaft and what appears to be a very nice Rollmaster double roller timing set. The Rollmaster set impressed me because once installed there was very little slack in the chain. The tightness did make installation a bit more challenging than usual.

I talked to the same man at Crower today, he was a bit more patient with me this time. He spoke with authority as he explained that the measurement is made from the snap clip to the larger piston not the smaller seat/insert.

I simply can not get a good feeling about these lifters. If the measurement is taken from the piston than what happens to the .084" between the push tube seat and the piston when pressurized oil enters the lifter? It seems to me the pressure will force the seat up and add an additional .084" to the original preload. I have all but confirmed this when I applied air pressure to the intake hole on the lifter and watched the seat move.

I purchased another set of lifters today. They are OEM style. I shouldn't expect to have any issues with them but the way this engine build is going I am.
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  #24  
Old 03-11-2019, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by threepiece View Post
The only performance upgrade on this engine is a towing camshaft and what appears to be a very nice Rollmaster double roller timing set. The Rollmaster set impressed me because once installed there was very little slack in the chain. The tightness did make installation a bit more challenging than usual.

I talked to the same man at Crower today, he was a bit more patient with me this time. He spoke with authority as he explained that the measurement is made from the snap clip to the larger piston not the smaller seat/insert.

I simply can not get a good feeling about these lifters. If the measurement is taken from the piston than what happens to the .084" between the push tube seat and the piston when pressurized oil enters the lifter? It seems to me the pressure will force the seat up and add an additional .084" to the original preload. I have all but confirmed this when I applied air pressure to the intake hole on the lifter and watched the seat move.

I purchased another set of lifters today. They are OEM style. I shouldn't expect to have any issues with them but the way this engine build is going I am.
Did the Lifters come with the cam?? If so Use them! also, depending on the cam especially performance cams of any kind of the word! most think all you do is just drop one in and your done! "Not" you might want to a degree the cam via a degree wheel and bushing kit or the timing chain set up if they even make such a set any longer not the best way for setting up the camshaft...with the old degree keyway style but better than nothing...
and depending on which cam you have might even put a curve kit in the distributor... Even with a so-called mild cam... towing cams are only to boost your takeoff torque and in return, you forfeit some of the power of a stock cam in between... so realistically you're much better off with "A Stock Camshaft"

Do you have the cam specs you can share with us... also when you say for towing do you meant like towing what?? and are you backing the engine with a stick shift or automatic trans?? and are the brakes vacuum booster or manual hydraulic or hydra boost brakes...

Sorry for all the questions but just trying to figure out what you are trying to do with this engine...
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Last edited by MetalWolf; 03-11-2019 at 11:42 PM.
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  #25  
Old 03-11-2019, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threepiece View Post
The only performance upgrade on this engine is a towing camshaft and what appears to be a very nice Rollmaster double roller timing set. The Rollmaster set impressed me because once installed there was very little slack in the chain. The tightness did make installation a bit more challenging than usual.

I talked to the same man at Crower today, he was a bit more patient with me this time. He spoke with authority as he explained that the measurement is made from the snap clip to the larger piston not the smaller seat/insert.

I simply can not get a good feeling about these lifters. If the measurement is taken from the piston than what happens to the .084" between the push tube seat and the piston when pressurized oil enters the lifter? It seems to me the pressure will force the seat up and add an additional .084" to the original preload. I have all but confirmed this when I applied air pressure to the intake hole on the lifter and watched the seat move.

I purchased another set of lifters today. They are OEM style. I shouldn't expect to have any issues with them but the way this engine build is going I am.

It’s been a long day and I’m not sure I can find the words to explain it properly but what you are worried about is the very thing they use hydraulic lifters for. The piston does not develop enough force to raise the piston the .084, it just makes a hydraulic link to maintain zero lash, what ever number that might be.

I’ve got a 400 laying in the shop I’m getting ready to warm up for a ‘79 f150 myself. It’s going to be odd for me.
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  #26  
Old 03-11-2019, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threepiece View Post
The only performance upgrade on this engine is a towing camshaft and what appears to be a very nice Rollmaster double roller timing set. The Rollmaster set impressed me because once installed there was very little slack in the chain. The tightness did make installation a bit more challenging than usual.

I talked to the same man at Crower today, he was a bit more patient with me this time. He spoke with authority as he explained that the measurement is made from the snap clip to the larger piston not the smaller seat/insert.

I simply can not get a good feeling about these lifters. If the measurement is taken from the piston than what happens to the .084" between the push tube seat and the piston when pressurized oil enters the lifter? It seems to me the pressure will force the seat up and add an additional .084" to the original preload. I have all but confirmed this when I applied air pressure to the intake hole on the lifter and watched the seat move.

I purchased another set of lifters today. They are OEM style. I shouldn't expect to have any issues with them but the way this engine build is going I am.
Post back when you get the new lifters and new lifter preload spec. I'm curious if it is a crower thing or not with the "slop" in the seat/insert. BTW the lifter I took apart had ~.020" of that "slop"

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinDodge View Post
Some are hollow and oil from the bottom to the top, push tube.
Some are solid and are low rpm and catch oil from the valve train, push rod
These are pushROD gas engines where oil is sent from lifters, through hollow pushrods and onto the valvetrain.

Different diesel vs gas terminology?
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  #27  
Old 03-11-2019, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Camaro Zach View Post


These are pushROD gas engines where oil is sent from lifters, through hollow pushrods and onto the valvetrain.

Different diesel vs gas terminology?
Ok, I’m going to type slow for you.

A tube is hollow.

A rod is solid.

A push tube brings oil up from the lifter to the rocker as I said before. A push rod is solid and is lower rpm and relies on splash lubrication as I said before.

You can call them Sally for all I care.
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  #28  
Old 03-11-2019, 11:26 PM
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Camaro Zach Camaro Zach is offline
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Originally Posted by SmokinDodge View Post
Ok, I’m going to type slow for you.

A tube is hollow.

A rod is solid.

A push tube brings oil up from the lifter to the rocker as I said before. A push rod is solid and is lower rpm and relies on splash lubrication as I said before.

You can call them Sally for all I care.
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Tomato/tomato engine/motor what the fuck ever. Y’all have fun
no need to get all bent out of shape. I agree with the wording Just pointing out in the gas world it is called something different.
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  #29  
Old 03-11-2019, 11:26 PM
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Threepiece, you are going really anal about a simple device.
Who cares if it is measured to the 4th decimal place, when it is full of oil the clearance will be zero.
When I worked on engines, they were chevys though, and the cams were Edelbrock.
All we did was assemble the whole thing and start up the engine with the valve cover off. Take a socket wrench and start tightening the rocker nuts til the clattering stops and everything is quiet. Tighten too much and it misses. Then back it off. Easy and simple.
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  #30  
Old 03-12-2019, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
Threepiece, you are going really anal about a simple device.
Who cares if it is measured to the 4th decimal place, when it is full of oil the clearance will be zero.
When I worked on engines, they were chevys though, and the cams were Edelbrock.
All we did was assemble the whole thing and start up the engine with the valve cover off. Take a socket wrench and start tightening the rocker nuts til the clattering stops and everything is quiet. Tighten too much and it misses. Then back it off. Easy and simple.
Yep use to run those cams back in the day... Until headed to Mexico for the money street races in Acuna' cost me a 15k fresh engine
wife decided we should do a good solid test run because it was fresh... so we started on the west end of the lake Amistad bridge once the trans brake let loose it only took her about 9 and a half seconds to get halfway cross it before all hell broke loose. the cam snapped in half busted out the center cam journal.... 1974 SBC400 with Weidner tunnel ram and 2, 650cfm carters backed by a BWT10 4spd.

any way pieces fell into the bottom crank decided to do a scatter and chatter dance and left big the parts and pieces of the engine were all over the roadway on the bridge.... ended of having the cam x-rayed what was left of it and were casting bubbles all through it now if I'm going to build a stroker I will only use Isky Cams...

And yes my wife was the racer...she liked being surrounded by metal and cage being she grew up around the drag strip...
Myself I was into the Bikes didn't like being surrounded by all that metal...
I Ran a Z1R drag bike And an FJ1100 production bike both turbo bikes...
ALL, past pleasures...as for strip or street racing... we both seemed to of calm down some... now I just like having the sound of old school horsepower eh and the power when ya need it
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