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Old 03-24-2006, 04:05 AM
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Default Twisting 1" wide blades 90 degrees (bandsaws)

I'm wondering how the life of the larger bandsaw blades is affected by the more drastic bends that Ellis induces on them over nearly everyone else. 90 degrees seems rather sharp to twist the blade, but does it actually adversely affect longevity over the more typical 45-60 degrees?

Also, does Ellis allow more space between the guides and the wheels than the brands that don't tweak the blade so much? It would seem there has to be a trade-off in there somewhere. I'm just wondering where it is.
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Old 03-24-2006, 10:26 AM
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The manf of different saws will have available the correct setting up of the parameters of the guides, type of guides used, rollers and measurements and tension.

As far as the twist applied to the blade, they can take a fair amount, but that would put to bear on specific wear points, with respect to the flexed areas and how that action is spread out thru the bend areas and just how much of the blade is exposed to it at any one time.
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Last edited by LW Hiway; 03-24-2006 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 03-24-2006, 12:06 PM
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Well, I'll be the manufacturer of my saw, so I'm wondering about more practical experience with blade life in the harsher environment of the Ellis' extra twist.

I'm gonna go to my local Ellis emporium (a dealer here typically has 6 on hand) and have another look at the guides and how close they can get to the wheels. I had a feeling they'd be further away than a DoAll or what have you. I need more steel for the weekends tasks anyway, and he rents space at the steel yard.
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Old 03-24-2006, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lwhiway

As far as the twist applied to the blade, they can take a fair amount, but that would put to bear on specific wear points, with respect to the flexed areas and how that action is spread out thru the bend areas and just how much of the blade is exposed to it at any one time.
LW, did your lawyer write that for you? Or just review it?
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Old 03-24-2006, 12:52 PM
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Cutter, it can get much worse than that, I spend on occasion several hours a day at work and by sub'ing out "tech writing", process spec criteria, non-standard mainenance practices etc etc.

I'm so accustomed to reading it in finished form and printed, that even the simplest form of correspondence to my Mother can be confusing.

This is nothing, you should read, and I may send you a sample, the reams of documentation that have to be approved by Uncle Sugar (Sam) dealing with the way a certain work process has to be performed. Sampling; How you are to wipe a bare aluminum a/c part with alcohol and protect it and cover it and fill out the removal tag and it's stamps and it's proceedures, and on and on and on.

We write stuffs that would confuse the prosecutor in case of fraud etc.

Have you ever taken a peak into the mm's or service manual of a large Boeing or such a/c? It makes for a relaxing read on Sunday afternoon.

Ok JT, now that Cutter has poked me in the eye, changing the directions will be with the bearing'd rollers for a no-rub twist. Rollers for the holding of the back of the blade to allow positive blade stance in the cut without abraiding the blades back edge and side rub blocks for the blades wanting to twist either side while cutting.

For the blades back roller, I have always just allowed the adjustment of it to barely not let the blade touch it, with the saw free running and not making a cut. With the slightest introduction of sawing material, minimal movement of the blade is noticed, if any, to engaged that roller.

The gap tween blade sides and rub blocks can be as little as .003" to as much as .020", take care with this as they have to be equal and square to the blades true track for a square cut. Top and bottom adjustments are the hardest on some saws to get this area correctly. As the softer material'd blocks wear, this gap opens and diviation in cut trueness will get ugly. The gap will also vary depending on adding an aftermarket guide rub blocks other than what the manufacturer set up and sold the saw with.

Some are harder, some softer and some are just plain garbage in use and function.

But, if, as you say, you are able to look at the show room models closely, you will be able to slip a set of feeler gages on theirs to see what the gap is for sure. If they have theirs set up and cut ready.

I'd be curious to see your saws progress from start thru construction. Seems that would make an informative thread.

My eye hurts! Did you wash that finger?
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God, if you would grant me one request through Prayer, please help me be the Man my Dog thinks I am. Please.

Quoting "The Hunt". "A man will walk into hell with both eyes and arms wide open. His dog will know better."

I never thought I'd live long enough to become a grumpy old bastard. Here I am, killing it!
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  #6  
Old 03-24-2006, 12:52 PM
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Cutter ,Be proud .I believe that to be correct useage of the american laungage.
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  #7  
Old 03-24-2006, 01:00 PM
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Hey, I can put a paid lobbyist to sleep. Give me 5 minutes and you'll all be snoozing.

BTW, Cutter, your latest saw acquisition, have you made any saw filings yet?

My step-dad is interested in that model saw for cutting gal., pvc piping and re-bar he is always fooling with around his hot houses.
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Quoting "The Hunt". "A man will walk into hell with both eyes and arms wide open. His dog will know better."

I never thought I'd live long enough to become a grumpy old bastard. Here I am, killing it!
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Old 03-24-2006, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lwhiway

BTW, Cutter, your latest saw acquisition, have you made any saw filings yet?
Nope, I haven't even got old Valentine painted yet.
The sawframe is pert near ready, all the smaller parts are on my workbench ready for the next step and
the base is about ready to re-brush and prime. The last thing I did was fab up the little grooved adjustment
strip for the vise over the last weekend. About the time I finished tacking it together I started having
symptoms of too much dust inhalation, asthma or something. I managed to work MTW but by Thursday
I was down witht the worst killer cold I've had in a long time.
I can barely breathe; the saw doesn't seem very important right now.
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  #9  
Old 03-24-2006, 01:20 PM
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I have a few different ideas floating around my noggin right now for how to address the blade guide issues. I'm making a dry saw, so carbide guides are out. I'm actually of the design philosophy to reduce as much friction as possible except to the drive wheel. We'll see how that shapes up.

While I was in the shower, I think I resolved my pneumatic actuation of the vise issue (I don't think I posted that here, but it's on another forum). A simple double acting cylinder, an appropriate control valve, and some leverage is all it's going to take (I already have a couple of the valves too). The saw will be air "up", "down", and "down feed speed" adjusted - also air clamped too (now that I found my solution). I'd been trying to make it too difficult. I may need an air activated valve paralleled to my manual one to automate this part, but I might have a source of those for cheap too. What hit me to control the valve was something I'd been thinking about using for speed control; the cylinder for the bow is double acting, but will act as a single acting in the design. I can use the pressure produced when the piston is retracted to release the vise. When the bow is back to upright, the pressure will be 0 again and the vise will clamp on its own.

In the end, my goal is to have a fully automatic saw that can cut pieces unattended till the stock runs out. Kinda like what Bob does for the mini RR tracks, only without needing to babysit the machine.

Bouncing concepts through the gray matter long enough usually resolves my design obstacles, but this blade resilience deal is something I can't hypothesize - I need some real world experience that I lack, so I'm asking for input. Thanks to those who've contributed so far.
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Old 03-24-2006, 01:32 PM
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Or maybe not. lol How come air can't act more like electricity?

Double acting cylinder valves would blow air out each other if paralleled. Drats! I might have to make this more mechanical, or find another 3 way I can make into a manual control for the air activated valve on the vise (sounds like a good option right now).
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