Shop Floor Talk  

Go Back   Shop Floor Talk > Welding and Metalworking Forums > Machining

SFT Search:   
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 04-26-2011, 02:25 PM
Ztxjwm's Avatar
Ztxjwm Ztxjwm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Lake Effect Snow Country (Upstate NY)
Posts: 65
Default

Sorry it took so long for me to respond- I bounce bewteen 4-5 computers and didn't see the new posts here!! I need to set it up so I get notifications on when there are new posts! I tried to chip in again (Sorry- I guess I'm just long winded! Lol) and toss some more information out to you. I hope this helps!!


When it comes to the saw bigger is not always better- I've had to run a 14" saw cutting open an end wall of a building to gain entry for fire supression and it really wore me out! Partner, Stihl, and Makita all make good saws- I have run both Partner and Stihl in the fire service with both a fiber blade for metal, and a demo blade for wood, nails, shingles. Best thing I can say is go try and demo one out at a dealer- they should have one you can start up and run and see how it feels when spun up to speed- make sure you hold it up and run it parallel to the ground as well. Once they spin up they have a gyroscope efect and it takes a bit to get used to and control. Once you get the hang of it though they almost steady themselves enough to just let them chew their way through on a horizontal cut. Remember that these are "drag saws" and are designed to be pulled towards you or into the material instead of pushing like a regular circular saw. They can jump out of the cut quickly when you hit the front of the blade. When you are finished with the cut, just let the saw idle down and rest it on the uncut section next to you- that will bring the blade to a stop pretty quickly and allow you to move freely without worrying about the blade hitting something while still spinning and bouncing up or causing injury to someone.

As far as running them into the sand- it shouldn't be a problem unless you hit something buried like a rock or other debris washed in with the storm. It would be work bringing a rake to run through the area and make sure there are no surprises hiding on you.

When cutting the top of the containers use a ladder to work off of so you have a stable work platform. Or fab up a plywood platform that hooks on both sides of the container and is about 3 feet wide. you can slide it down the container as you cut, and not have to worry about stepping in a hole or on a piece that you have cut and having it drop away from you. We use roof ladders in the fire service, but if you use one of those, or the fly section off of an extension ladder, make sure you tie it off so that it doesn't slide on you- it would be like juggling cats and running chainsaws while sliding on glare ice! You could probably find some scrap lumber that washed up during the storm to build a stable yet portable platform to work from. It might also be a good idea to have some plywood to stand on while working on the sides too so that you have stable footing.

The only other thing I would suggest is a sawzall or reciprocating saw with some extrication blades. Corded with a generator or cordless is up to you. There are going to be spots that you cannot reach in and get to with the demo saw, but that you can get with the sawzall. Milwaukee and Dewalt make specific blades for extrication work in the fire service- they are heavier duty thicker blades that will last longer to the abuse you are going to put them through.

I hope this helps, and if you can take pics!! We like pics here!! If you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask!! If you want some pictures or diagrams let me know and I'll whip some up for ya!!

Good luck, and keep us updated!

Bill
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 04-27-2011, 06:25 PM
thegoogman thegoogman is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztxjwm View Post

I hope this helps, and if you can take pics!! We like pics here!! If you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask!! If you want some pictures or diagrams let me know and I'll whip some up for ya!!

Good luck, and keep us updated!

Bill
This helps a TON! I'm working on purchasing a used saw right now, and should be able to get out there and do some preliminary work in a week or so--which is when you'll get some pictures! The more I think about it, the more I'm realizing how much work this all is--kudos to you guys for not laughing me out of the site! I have to figure out some way to get the non-empty containers empty, the sunken containers unsunk, and the plates of steel I cut have to get moved....somewhere. The dump? I assume the market for scrap metal is a little depressed in Japan right now!

The good news is that, as a teacher, I'm right on the verge of a 3 month vacation, so I'll have tons of time to work out there. Even if I don't do the whole thing, I'm hopeful that I can at least clear out the main swimming and surfing areas.

Thanks again for all the advice, and I'll post some up-close pics when I get them!
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 04-27-2011, 07:14 PM
monckywrench's Avatar
monckywrench monckywrench is offline
trust but verify
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Elsewhere
Posts: 4,457
Default

If you use mixed equipment, you can breach with the saw like the rescue folks, then after ensuring it's safe you can cut comfortably with a torch which can reach where saws won't.

Find a convenient place to DRAG the steel on the beach. Once at a central location, it may be loaded, or cut up to fit scrap containers of whatever size is available. "Off the beach" can mean "gathered out of the way".

Think out of the box when your are cutting up boxes!
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 04-27-2011, 11:47 PM
Ztxjwm's Avatar
Ztxjwm Ztxjwm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Lake Effect Snow Country (Upstate NY)
Posts: 65
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by monckywrench View Post
If you use mixed equipment, you can breach with the saw like the rescue folks, then after ensuring it's safe you can cut comfortably with a torch which can reach where saws won't.

Find a convenient place to DRAG the steel on the beach. Once at a central location, it may be loaded, or cut up to fit scrap containers of whatever size is available. "Off the beach" can mean "gathered out of the way".

Think out of the box when your are cutting up boxes!
Good point monkywrench- if you can find torches they can defnitely be used in places where the saw can't reach- BUT with the paint being zinc based you do not want to inhale ANY of the fumes. Be upwind, and try not to use them on a calm day- a breeze is your friend. Granted you are in an open air environment and shouldn't get to much of an exposure, it's just not worth taking the chance or having multiple exposures build up to a toxic level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegoogman View Post
This helps a TON! I'm working on purchasing a used saw right now, and should be able to get out there and do some preliminary work in a week or so--which is when you'll get some pictures! The more I think about it, the more I'm realizing how much work this all is--kudos to you guys for not laughing me out of the site! I have to figure out some way to get the non-empty containers empty, the sunken containers unsunk, and the plates of steel I cut have to get moved....somewhere. The dump? I assume the market for scrap metal is a little depressed in Japan right now!

The good news is that, as a teacher, I'm right on the verge of a 3 month vacation, so I'll have tons of time to work out there. Even if I don't do the whole thing, I'm hopeful that I can at least clear out the main swimming and surfing areas.

Thanks again for all the advice, and I'll post some up-close pics when I get them!
Someone mentioned a trash pump earlier in the thread to wash the sand away from the partially submerged containers- that would probably work as you have an unlimited water source near by you could wash down the surrounding sand away from the containers- however if you are in the tidal area all your hard work might be for naught when the tide comes in and back fills the holes. I would look around and see what you might be able to find for high density foam, pontoons, etc... and for those that are out near the water edge work on lashing floats to them after you have emptied them and then bring them closer in to shore to do the demolition work on drier gound. The seals on the doors normally are weather tight- but not water tight for submersion. So stock up on some good duct tape- believe it or not that will seal it long enough to float it closer to shore. Once you empty the containers it probably won't take too much more to get them to float and then you could just stand up on the wall and pull them in with ropes. (With a little help of course!) I'd also look at maybe setting one up by the wall to help get in and out- and build some stairs or a ramp. If it's a 12foot or more drop from the top to the beach a container on it's side is only just about 8foot tall and would give you a staging area to work from.

Beyond that I would find a place near by to stage everything in piles. This would facilitate any scrapping companies ease of removal- easier access = more interest. You might even be able to set up something so that you get some cash for the metal- even if its lower than market value- and raise some funds for the rebuild of the beach area at the same time.

I found a couple of good pictures of containers and I'll try to make up some cut diagrams of how I would attack it, along with some of the other suggestions and get them posted some time this weekend. I also looked at the satellite view again and saw quite a hodge podge of containers there- from the short half trailer size to full trailer length, and even a couple of regular tractor trailers with axles and wheels still attached! You definitely have your work cut out for you!!

Once again if you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask!! We're all waiting for the pics too so we can get a ground level view of what you're in for- the satellite is ok, but hard to tell how rough the terrain is and how much more debris there are beyond the trailers, and how deep they are in the sand.

Bill
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 04-28-2011, 08:34 AM
thegoogman thegoogman is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 9
Default As requested!

Alright! I give! Here's some pictures!

I apologize that many aren't great shots of the containers specifically--these are from a collection of pics that I was shooting just generally as I was in the area. You can see not only the containers, but also what the tsunami did to the seawall and the forest right behind it. That damage is what's keeping heavy machinery from reaching the containers. Well, that, and they're all working 24/7 clearing roads and houses...

As an aside, the military that you see in one of the photos is combing the beach for dead bodies...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	190267_1887095054156_1144823738_3332920_2951812_n.jpg
Views:	394
Size:	65.3 KB
ID:	75541   Click image for larger version

Name:	217313_10150218310276411_664576410_9137046_6378701_n.jpg
Views:	397
Size:	54.7 KB
ID:	75542   Click image for larger version

Name:	206851_10150218310761411_664576410_9137059_1590334_n.jpg
Views:	398
Size:	52.6 KB
ID:	75543   Click image for larger version

Name:	189935_1887095374164_1144823738_3332925_1832104_n.jpg
Views:	396
Size:	76.0 KB
ID:	75545   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_8447.jpg
Views:	394
Size:	99.4 KB
ID:	75546  


Last edited by thegoogman; 04-28-2011 at 08:51 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 04-28-2011, 09:03 AM
Ztxjwm's Avatar
Ztxjwm Ztxjwm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Lake Effect Snow Country (Upstate NY)
Posts: 65
Default

Goog-

Yep, you have quite the project there for sure. From seeing the see wall you don't need a staging platform, but you might need to move some sand in to make that first step manageable. I saw plenty of debris that could be used for bracing, cribbing, scaffolding, work platforms, etc... So other than wood saws and some screws/nails/and bolts you would only need your metal cutting tools and some good heavy gloves for handling the sharp edged material after cutting. There is also enough small wood there that you could probably fashion up a bunch of small wedges to help with possible pinching of the blade (similar to lumberjacks when they are cutting).

We'll look for an update after you've had a chance to get down on the beach and survey some more to pick where you're going to start.

Bill
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 05-18-2011, 09:36 AM
Ztxjwm's Avatar
Ztxjwm Ztxjwm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Lake Effect Snow Country (Upstate NY)
Posts: 65
Default

Anyone heard from the Googman lately? I'm wondering how he is making out with his project, and the recovery in general.....

Bill
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 05-20-2011, 09:02 AM
1-800miner 1-800miner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: sierra mountains
Posts: 156
Default

Googman: Don't assume you are taking that steel to the dump.
Here in the U.S. scrap is selling very high and getting shipped your direction. Do your homework and find a buyer.You may make this project profitable,or at least break even.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
acetylene, containers, japan, salvage

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Web Search:

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.