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  #41  
Old 07-19-2005, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markopolo
Personally, I learn best by WATCHING someone do it !
Well personally I learn best by doing it, and generally it only takes me about 10,000 times before I catch on! Must mean I’m a slow learner, maybe I should learn to read, then I too would be a “Book Learner”
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  #42  
Old 07-19-2005, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Pile Buck
Well personally I learn best by doing it, and generally it only takes me about 10,000 times before I catch on! Must mean I’m a slow learner, maybe I should learn to read, then I too would be a “Book Learner”
One thing I learned in embalming school: "It doesn't matter how long it takes......what matters is the results you get" !
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  #43  
Old 07-19-2005, 08:36 PM
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Maybe I didn't explain it right, but on fig. 11-16, it says that the angle of exposure and geometry of the weld influence interpretation of the radiograph. Now the pic in fig. 11-16 of the side view of the pipe with the source A or B (the pill) on top being shot to the film A or B on the bottom at an angle. It also shows the pill being used internally being shot to the film outside the pipe. I've seen both methods used, but the latter way is used more often.

When shooting from an angle the exposure can produce, what looks like a slight type of 3D effect. After working on weld repair crews for awhile and seeing the strips, I guess you get to know where and what to look for. It's just a personal opinion, but this is the way I've learned to do it.

While welding on some skid's in Tacoma, bound for the slope, in Alaska, I had a repair on a 6 in. pipe. From the looks, on the strip, there was a small thin line about 1/2 inch long, near the center of the weld but off to one side. After grindig down close to the root I found it right on the edge of the weld, in the filler area. After making the repair and getting a second shot, by another tech, another line showed up in a different section of the weld that looked the same. I went back in and while I was doing the second repair I picked up the line again, while welding the filler. I knew I had cleaned up the bad spot, because I had the repair area visually checked by QC and was told to weld it up, so I stopped and got the QC guy and asked his opinion. The entire weld, at his request, was cut out and it was found that at the end of the pipe where I had welded the flange on, there was small areas of lamination around the pipe, that came from the factory, which extended back from the end approx. 2 ins. That piece of pipe, approx. three feet long, was completly removed and was replaced.Thankfully, I wasn't called on that repair , because it was a 100% x-ray job and three repairs in a certain time frame, or one complete weld cutout, ....... you were fired.

Like I said before, this is just the way I have done it and I'm sure that there are other welders that have their own opinions about working with x-rays.

hope this helps.
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  #44  
Old 07-19-2005, 08:40 PM
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Ahhhh Marko, just out of curioscity, you didn't make your initial entry into the embalming business via a matchbook cover, did you?
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  #45  
Old 07-19-2005, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Franz
Ahhhh Marko, just out of curioscity, you didn't make your initial entry into the embalming business via a matchbook cover, did you?
Uncle Franz, the answer to that question is: "NO"

I think I know what you're trying to imply though........"TIME IS MONEY" ?

There's an old saying: "Haste makes Waste".

I don't care HOW fast you are.....if you're turning out "crap", you're not worth your payroll check !
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  #46  
Old 07-19-2005, 09:25 PM
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Been a long day.


I don't know exactly how to respond to most of the stuff here, other than the fact that there is no such thing as back welding on our pipe. We repair from the outside in. (A repair is not very frequent, and if you get one, you have to live with the ribbing from everyone). I screwed the pooch on the bead while making my hot pass friday afternoon in the rain. I blew out about 4 o'clock for 2 inches. It was raining on us, and we were trying to close the day out. I sweated that burn thru until the x-ray crew looked at it. (I passed) I have back-welded a time or two in years gone by, but it is not something to brag about in the pipeline world.


Rained like hell here today, and we had to hyrdro the 12" pipe to 1240 lbs. The chart is running tonight. We didn't get much welding done today, but we talked a lot about chucking everything and hitting a beer joint
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Last edited by b-footn; 07-19-2005 at 09:31 PM.
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  #47  
Old 07-19-2005, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTMcC.
My take is that your typical x ray hand looks like he's about 12 years old, and acts like he's 5.
Of course there are some good ones, but they are rare these days.
It really gets stupid when they tell the welder that "everything will be just fine if you keep plenty of my brand of beer in your cooler", or when they pipe up and ask "who's buying us dinner tonight?" Or when they can't tell the difference between ip and ipd, and on and on it goes.
But on the whole they are better than inspectors who've never welded. Or the spread boss that hates welders.
Other than that I pretty much love my job

JTMcC.
And we all think that welders are prima-donna's

My favorite technician around here is the oldest guy that works for the testing facility. He will bust your balls for anything not in codes, but you expect it. He doesn't play the games.
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  #48  
Old 07-20-2005, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverbill45
Maybe I didn't explain it right, but on fig. 11-16, it says that the angle of exposure and geometry of the weld influence interpretation of the radiograph. Now the pic in fig. 11-16 of the side view of the pipe with the source A or B (the pill) on top being shot to the film A or B on the bottom at an angle. It also shows the pill being used internally being shot to the film outside the pipe. I've seen both methods used, but the latter way is used more often.
Hi Bill, I read it again, and again. I guess I just keep getting hung up on the word “interpretation”! To me that falls in the same category has “should of / could of”! I like definite answers. HOW DEEP IS IT? Don’t give me I think it’s only ½-inch! When you’re dealing with the caliber of your average pile buck weldor, it can drive you up a tree in no time. When we spliced those 10-feet dia piles at Bonneville. I was running the night shift, when the splice sections arrived by barge from Portland I took note of the joint prep; they were 1-inch wall rolled plate. They had about 3/8 + inch of land. I thought to my self, we better correct this, before they get set in position. I showed up for work one afternoon, and the day crew was in the process of setting the first top section, I climbed down on the staging to see if that land had been corrected, nope! I told the crew to hold up! I went and talked to the day shift Supt. Very good friend of mine, no welding experience at all! I told him we needed to lay this section back down and correct the land; the weldors will never burn through. No way in he!! was he going to back up, just wasn’t his nature. Well we go nose-to-nose, chew on each other’s mustaches for a while. So the only way he his going to tell his crew to lay it down is if the project manager says to. I go to the office and explain this to the project manager, NOPE! Weld it up! I can’t remember how many splices were in the budget, I think something like 14, but anyway, on this first splice we ate up the entire welding budget. First off it took 12-days / 2 weeks, of 2-shifts, at 10-hour per shift to weld the first splice. Then 1-week to get it to pass the x-ray. I wanted to set down and cry! Now being as I was the only one of the project management who had any welding experience, who do you think got to explain to the owners of my company what went wrong when the cost report hit the main office?
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  #49  
Old 07-21-2005, 03:43 PM
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Hey, sorry it took so long to get back to you pile buck but I was busy yesterday and this is the first time that I have been back on the site.

I know what you're talking about when dealing with some people in management. I was on a pump station in Willard, Washington. The contractor had built a new pumping station just east of Stevenston, in the gorge, and we were tying in the new line to the existing line. Needless to say, this job was started in the early fall and wasn't completed until the following spring. As you know, the winters in the gorge, get pretty cold, with the wind blowing all the time, and this happened to be one of those real cold winters. At the time it was snowing everynight, but during the day the sun would shine and the temp. would be pretty good. One afternoon, a few of us were working on a 20 in. about 70-80 ft. long, that was going to be tied into one of the buildings and one of the new lines that we had installed underground. This new underground line had been put in about 1-1/2 months before and been covered up and graded. Where the tie in was going to be made it came up above the ground with a 90* elbow.The general foreman wanted the pipe cut to length and the ends preped before we went home and we could set it into place and weld it up the next morning. I said that it would be better if we cut it the next morning since the sun had been shining on it all day, and if we cut it now and waited until the morning to weld it up it would be too short. He wouldn't listen and after a few harsh words back and forth, we wound up cutting it to length and leaving at the end of the shift. (I'M SURE YOU KNOW WHERE THIS IS GOING). Well, that night it snowed again, about 6 inches with the temp. dropping down to near 0*, and the next morning when we came in and set it in place it was way to short. Needless to say we got blamed for the screwup. The supt. was informed and only after we told him what we were told to do, did he realize who had made the mistake. After we heated the pipe with propne weed burners we got to make both welds and also got a new general foreman. This guy had made some real screwups in the past, and this was just the one that did him in. This was one of these jobs where everything needed to be done yesterday, moral was low and stress was high. A few days later I got the call to go on the pipeline job that I waiting for, and I couldn't get out of there fast enough.

About the x-ray conversation that we were having, I don't know what else to say, except that this is the way I've learned to read them and most of the time, it's worked for me. This is just my own personal opinion, not saying it is right nor wrong, just an opinion.

Could you shoot me a personal e-mail because I need some info about the pile drivers.

Thanks
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  #50  
Old 07-21-2005, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pile Buck
Hey Marko, if you don’t mind, and think about it, could you let us know what you think of that book! I can’t say I’ve ever heard of it before. Another good book I’ve had for at least 20-years is “The Pipe Fitter’s and Pipe Welder’s Handbook” by Thomas W. Frankland. Some really good formulas in this book. It says right on the cover $4.95, wonder how much one would cost now a days.
Well Pile....here's the "book report"

My opinion is this is an excellent book ! All aspects of pipewelding are covered in detail. A fair amount of drawings and photographs to illustrate his teaching.

What I really like is that he not only tells you HOW to make the welds, he tells you the theory behind WHY you need to make the welds that way.

Also covered are welding complicated joints, metallurgy, distortion, pipe welding defects (and how to avoid them).........and more !

He almost dedicates an entire chapter to each and every step from joint prep., putting in the root bead (both uphill and downhill, thin wall and thick wall, 6010, 8010, 7018 and Heliarc.........e.t.c.), hot passes, stripper beads, cover passes, fixing screw-ups, fit-up (and how to weld joints that are NOT fit-up properly)...........

Just a real "Treasure Trove" of information !

I feel that this book is the "next best thing" to actually getting hands-on training in the field !

Marko.
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