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  #41  
Old 07-16-2005, 05:23 PM
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Franz,
I think that explains it. Let's see.

So the porous filler fills the entire tank and there is no empty space between the filler and the valve. The "boiling off" of the acetylene occurs within the filler as the gas is used. If that's correct, then I get it now. I was indeed somewhat misinformed.

My impression was that the filler did not fill the entire tank and there was a void above which was occupied by a small amount of gaseous acetylene. The filler was there to help keep the acetone/acetylene mix stabilized, but did not completely absorb it. I believed it was more of a honeycomb, than a sponge. Given those parameters, it would handle pretty much like any other liquid cylinder.

Thanks for the lesson! I definitely appreciate it.
BTW, Name's Terry. Glad to meet ya.
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  #42  
Old 07-16-2005, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team DeSade
Franz,
I think that explains it. Let's see.

So the porous filler fills the entire tank and there is no empty space between the filler and the valve. The "boiling off" of the acetylene occurs within the filler as the gas is used. If that's correct, then I get it now. I was indeed somewhat misinformed.

My impression was that the filler did not fill the entire tank and there was a void above which was occupied by a small amount of gaseous acetylene. The filler was there to help keep the acetone/acetylene mix stabilized, but did not completely absorb it. I believed it was more of a honeycomb, than a sponge. Given those parameters, it would handle pretty much like any other liquid cylinder.

Thanks for the lesson! I definitely appreciate it.
BTW, Name's Terry. Glad to meet ya.
Kinda, sorta, but not exactly close enough.
First of all, the concretious filler is a lot closed to a sponge than a honeycomb, but I'm very disinclined to stick the camera into LN's bee tree to get closeup shots and explain the difference. Those bees are very easily upset in the 90° temperatures we been having here.

The second thing, we've fallen into using the term "Liquid Cylinder" very loosely in this discussion. A Co2 cylinder and a Propane cylinder that are normally found is a fire extingusiher, and a grill cylinder are technicly NOT liquid cylinders.
Rather than me doing a lot of typing, I suggest you read the information on Taylor Warton's site. http://www.taylor-wharton.com/Pages/FAQ.htm
They have the subject well covered.
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  #43  
Old 07-16-2005, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Thanks for the lesson! I definitely appreciate it.
Now that's a first, usually the new guys call Franz a @#%^&+ and a @#$%%(^ and say he doesn't know *%&^($ about *(&%. Nice to see somebody with some manners for a change Maybe there's hope yet
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  #44  
Old 07-16-2005, 11:47 PM
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Sometimes they work in "rustic" and "patina", too. Or various derivations.
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  #45  
Old 07-17-2005, 12:14 AM
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"usually the new guys call Franz a @#%^&+ and a @#$%%(^ and say he doesn't know *%&^($ about *(&%."
Some of em are even right, sorta, but they can't spell worth a dam, so they type @#%^&+ when they really mean #$%^_& and that just sets me off. As far as not knowin *%^($ about *(&96, well, what can I say. Since I saw the patina on that rustic POS, I've eschewed any further involvement with *(&% cause it just might be toxic, and I gotta be careful these days according to Lawn Nazi. Bein that her specialty is infection control, I sorta listen when she talks on point, but since I don't want to obfuscate this brilliant thread, I'll forego further comment.
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  #46  
Old 07-17-2005, 08:09 AM
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Default One question,Franz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franz
"usually the new guys call Franz a @#%^&+ and a @#$%%(^ and say he doesn't know *%&^($ about *(&%."
Some of em are even right, sorta, but they can't spell worth a dam, so they type @#%^&+ when they really mean #$%^_& and that just sets me off. As far as not knowin *%^($ about *(&96, well, what can I say. Since I saw the patina on that rustic POS, I've eschewed any further involvement with *(&% cause it just might be toxic, and I gotta be careful these days according to Lawn Nazi. Bein that her specialty is infection control, I sorta listen when she talks on point, but since I don't want to obfuscate this brilliant thread, I'll forego further comment.
Ive even seen then fill the cly. at the main plant, and i allways wonder why with acc. especially they were so crital on weighing them,,So that I know now,,But as for the old time pipe welders that had the oxy,acc, laying down on there rigs ,,they should have known better,,I asked one ,one day and he explained his father did it his entire life,,and he can back the trailer in the garage(guess he had the bottles standing and small garage door? )So thats the way i was always taught, and no accidents,,and every pipe welder's rig was almost the same,,The only experiance Ive had was the driver unloading at my shop, and the acc. bottle kida dropped about a ft,,next thing I now is the guys are yelling they spell acc. but no fire,,So I call my supplier,who tellls me to call the fire dept(which i did) and he came over, the 1 of the 3 lead plugs on the bottom got knocked loose from the drop,,Thanks,Jack
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  #47  
Old 07-17-2005, 06:00 PM
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Stortz,
It's an OSHA violation to leave the cylinder upright and unsecured in someother than a gas storage area. So I think leaving the cylinder on it's side was the smart thing to do. Not just from the legal side, but what happens if some kid rides his bike into a 250 cu ft O2 cylinder?

I always carry mine on their side in the back of my truck.

2 hrs is the recomended time to let it sit, but cutting it short is not a safety risk in and of itself. Withdrawing gas too fast, may pull acetone into the torch, contaminating the weld, and reducing the amount left in the cylinder. D0 this enough and there will be an increased gas space in the tank which increases the chance of a problem. Doing this once or twice is no big deal. They are susposed to check the weight every time it is refilled, because some acetone is lost every time just due to evaporation, mosly as the bottle is near empty and the vapor pressure of the acetone is a greater precentage of the total pressure.

I saw the pic of the hitch mounted bottle carrier. I've gone that one better, I actually towed a OA cart 100' down GA-85 behind a SUV. Now I was blocking traffic (had their been any) behind it with my truck, but the cop who was watching everything was trying to figure out how many laws I broke. They only one he was sure of was the SUV was driving the wrong dirrection down the road :-).

If you really need to keep the bottle height low, look into 20# LP tanks of some more exotic gas like MAPP or Proplyene. They can be run sideways if you add a vapor converter. Either way, being a liquid gas they store more BTUs in a small space, and can be run the instant they are turned vertical. Absent extremely cold weather, they have a much higher withdrawal rate to run rosebuds.
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  #48  
Old 07-17-2005, 10:38 PM
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Default Thanks P Turner

Quote:
Originally Posted by pturner
Stortz,
It's an OSHA violation to leave the cylinder upright and unsecured in someother than a gas storage area. So I think leaving the cylinder on it's side was the smart thing to do. Not just from the legal side, but what happens if some kid rides his bike into a 250 cu ft O2 cylinder?

I always carry mine on their side in the back of my truck.

2 hrs is the recomended time to let it sit, but cutting it short is not a safety risk in and of itself. Withdrawing gas too fast, may pull acetone into the torch, contaminating the weld, and reducing the amount left in the cylinder. D0 this enough and there will be an increased gas space in the tank which increases the chance of a problem. Doing this once or twice is no big deal. They are susposed to check the weight every time it is refilled, because some acetone is lost every time just due to evaporation, mosly as the bottle is near empty and the vapor pressure of the acetone is a greater precentage of the total pressure.

I saw the pic of the hitch mounted bottle carrier. I've gone that one better, I actually towed a OA cart 100' down GA-85 behind a SUV. Now I was blocking traffic (had their been any) behind it with my truck, but the cop who was watching everything was trying to figure out how many laws I broke. They only one he was sure of was the SUV was driving the wrong dirrection down the road :-).

If you really need to keep the bottle height low, look into 20# LP tanks of some more exotic gas like MAPP or Proplyene. They can be run sideways if you add a vapor converter. Either way, being a liquid gas they store more BTUs in a small space, and can be run the instant they are turned vertical. Absent extremely cold weather, they have a much higher withdrawal rate to run rosebuds.
Better put your location in before Cutter Gets Ya!!
That was years ago,,And Everyone was doing it,I was a 20 year old kid,that my bosses started the Buisness, and all the old time pipe welders all did it,,I did not know any better ,except they had 60+ years of running like that?
Now I do, and dont do hardly any road work, except for cust.that I use there welder and torches, and sold My welding truck, (Kept the portable) and if I have to go I plop the portable on the delivery truck,and bottles(laying down,,)and make sure that if the valve gets wacked,its not going towards the cab,,and thats about it,,But thanks for the info,and Franz also, It was a lesson,,Thanks,Jack,
Think theres a miss understanding,,where my pic showed its 1100 ft off the road ,a nd they have to get though a gate and a neighbor that carrys a 12 ga. around,,,this was 30+ years ago,,,Hope it clears that up,Jack

Last edited by storts; 07-17-2005 at 10:49 PM. Reason: Opps and double opps
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  #49  
Old 07-18-2005, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotorDoctor
Now that's a first, usually the new guys call Franz a @#%^&+ and a @#$%%(^ and say he doesn't know *%&^($ about *(&%. Nice to see somebody with some manners for a change Maybe there's hope yet
Thanks. I've lurked for several months here and fully understand the caliber of folks I'm dealing with. I'm here to learn and if the occasion arises, share. If I mistakenly share less than completely accurate information, I expect that someone will correct me and I'll learn from it.

Franz holds far more knowledge and experience than I'm likely to ever have and it is my intent to absorb as much of it as possible. It's my privilege to have access to such vast resources. The least I can do is show a little respect.
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