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  #51  
Old 08-05-2019, 11:22 AM
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MetalWolf MetalWolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade Tree Welder View Post
Got a link???
Can't find the link to this one but here are pics you should be able to find it at any O'Rileys or AutoZone but for your purpose, I would use the Black gasket maker... for the plenums and the silver for the front intake seals...
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  #52  
Old 08-05-2019, 02:38 PM
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Kinda like Cat Greenshit for gluing and Cat Redshit for sealing....wish I had some left


Pretty much agree with our resident Wolf, too much blueglue will squeeze out and gaskets will slide.

I have picked tiny little pieces of blueglue out of hydraulic valves that were acting up, who knows where it came from..

I like glueing gaskets to the removable part, then installing them dry or with just the tiniest little bit of sealant on there.
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  #53  
Old 08-06-2019, 11:36 AM
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Permatex got back to me.


Quote:
Ronald,

Consider Permatex Ultra Black for both of you applications, as a replacement
to the paper intake manifold gasket, as well as sealing the corner flanges of
your oil pan. Make sure all the old gasket material is removed and substrates
are clean and dry.

Don Sutliff
Senior Product Support Specialist
ITW Permatex, Inc.
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  #54  
Old 08-06-2019, 12:34 PM
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Case uses Loctite 515 on anything without a gasket, It also works good with a gasket. It's an anaerobic sealer so the squeeze out really doesn't harden up so it won't flake off to mess up valves and passages. The other thing we use around here is the Permatex ultra grey. We try to use it cautiously, a thin smear will do. I just cringe when I see smurf jizz all over a machine or find weatherstrip adhesive on gaskets. As long as there isn't a printed seal on the gasket a little grease will hold it, otherwise some 515 will do the same thing.
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  #55  
Old 08-07-2019, 08:05 AM
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MetalWolf MetalWolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade Tree Welder View Post
Permatex got back to me.
Well, Ron. I guess you got the answer you might have been looking for in the reply from the Permatex company...

I think everyone here has used just about everything on the market at one time or another and all have found products that work for them in what every application being applied... the Permatex products I suggested are good and have never failed me... but with that it still comes down to preference to an individual of what product worked best for them that has never failed them

I for one use nothing but for sealants and nothing but Fel-pro gaskets...

also, want to touch on what Dr. Dean mentioned in his post about holding gaskets on grease is a good substitute in old school applications and I cringe too when I see one has used adhesives to seal gaskets when only need just a spot or two to hold it on... I do use the adhesive on occasion to "spot tack" gaskets in older applications... But in the more modern gasket surfaces it's not so much needed with all the alignment pins and gaskets being pushed into groves and held in on some surfaces... and I would only use that application of using adhesive tacking on inframe work anything out of the engine compartment on a stand no need for any grease or adhesives...

and with all that RTV silicone sealers still, have their place in the application if used correctly like some areas where its called for threads... problem is everyone wants to put it at the beginning of the threads and that's where it gets into an engine to float around once it brakes loose... where it should be applied in the middle of the blot threads so it seals and does not get pushed down to the bottom of the hole.

I don't know where you can find information on this but... when one thinks back to this... in accordance with the area or part being disassembled how many times have you pulled a bolt and notice the sealer or locking compound either one, has been applied from the factory at the tip/beginning of a bolt threads... and you have noticed it is always applied from the middle center or towards the very top of the bolt threads.

If I have ever seen sealant or locking compound at the very end of a bolt I know it's been in to and work on after the fact of manufacturer assembly...

I'm sure there are others here who can concur with that.

So to not have leak's... oil or water and or otherwise it all comes down to the proper adhesives, sealants and locking compounds applied in the manner intended to the appropriate application/s...
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  #56  
Old 08-07-2019, 09:57 AM
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I am deleting the gasket from the plenum and just using gasket maker to seal
the seam. The gasketed design is the problem, just a shitty design.

So, what I will be doing.

1. Clean both surfaces to a bright surface.
2. Degrease all surfaces, threads and fasteners.
3. Apply gasket maker (Permatex Ultra Black) to mating surfaces, minimum quantity.
4. Loctite 243 (blue to threads)
5. Follow the 3 step torquing procedure and pattern to torque down the plate to manifold.

My observations.

A. The design and gasket is a problem, they should have a silicon over metal
gasket to solve this problem, no one has done it and even the better Fel-Pro
gaskets fail. Screws back out/loosen over time, gaskets fail.
B. By deleting the paper gasket it cannot fail. The gasket maker will not only
bond the surface it will prevent leaks, preparation of the surfaces will be
critical.
C. The fasteners will be Loctited in place and I will be using Loctite primer to
ensure a good cure and bond. Also de-greasing will be performed on all parts
to ensure good adhesion.
D. The Permatex Ultra Black and Loctite 243 are formulated for oil resistance.
E. The Mopar modified 3 step torquing of a plate is clearly a band-aid to a
bigger problem. It give them something to point at that clearly wont solve a
design problem...

Customer/Mechanic: The gasket failed again, you have a poor design.
Mopar: If it failed you did not follow the proper torque procedure.
C/M: Yes I did, per xyz.
Mopar: Welllll, if you had it would not have failed.
.
.
.

Etc. etc.
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  #57  
Old 08-07-2019, 03:59 PM
Rob65 Rob65 is online now
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Just a thought, is there any risk that since this thing has been running with some of the bolts missing and others loose iOS there any risk of anything having warped?

I’m sure it’s something you will have considered but it’s not been mentioned so I figured I would ask.

Sorry if this is a dumb thing to ask but I’m not familiar with the design of these specific engines so if warping is not likely please don’t be offended and ignore the above.

Rob




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  #58  
Old 08-07-2019, 04:45 PM
BukitCase BukitCase is offline
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Just curious, never thought about this before - does using Loctite on a bolt change the required torque value from "dry" to "lubed" ?? ...Steve
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  #59  
Old 08-07-2019, 05:26 PM
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RED caddy RED caddy is offline
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I've been using Ultra Grey for years on blower manifolds, hats, intakes, pans and corners. The heat from warm up seems to speed the cure rate, yet easy clean up with acetone. Biggest non racing use is Northstar intake, pans and valve covers. All well known leak spots, as well as any GM plastic piece.

If 28 pounds of boost and 70 lbs. of oil pressure / windage won't push it out, it's in there.

RED
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  #60  
Old 08-07-2019, 11:57 PM
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MetalWolf MetalWolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob65 View Post
Just a thought, is there any risk that since this thing has been running with some of the bolts missing and others loose iOS there any risk of anything having warped?

I’m sure it’s something you will have considered but it’s not been mentioned so I figured I would ask.

Sorry if this is a dumb thing to ask but I’m not familiar with the design of these specific engines so if warping is not likely please don’t be offended and ignore the above.

Rob

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Rob. If any it would be very slight and the ultra lack would take care of it anyway... the plate is fairly thick and does not warp easily unless abused in praying the old riveted one-off which, the rivets should always be ground off then remainder of the rivet removed after plate is removed if it doesn't have riveted plate it has been repaired before!
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