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  #11  
Old 07-26-2004, 09:48 PM
Franz Franz is offline
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Well, I do hate to throw a monkey wrench in the gear train here, mostly cause they are gettin hard to come by, but bein the Old Fart, it's part of my job to set you younguns straight.
Shade, bein the petroexpert he is, explained a while back that most of the synthetic oils are compounded by disassembling and then reassembling dinojuice, and that alone knocks the antidino theory all to hell.
Hell, when a man who gets paid to peddle lubricants says to save your money, I gotta believe him.
Add in that DuPont will sue anybody to hell and back if they even use the word "teflon" in an attempt to peddle oil, and that everything I ever read says teflon is bad for an engine and will plug oil passages.

Marko, 30 weight will work well where you are, but up here we do need the multiviscoscity crap in the modern engines. On machines that sit a week or more during winter, the amount of time it takes to build oil pressure will do damage if straight 30 is used.
It ain't unusual around here to apply a little propane to the bottom of an oilpan when starting a machine in winter, and I've been known to stick a lit propane torch into the air line between the air cleaner and manifold to get a Diesel running on a cold day.
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  #12  
Old 07-26-2004, 10:50 PM
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Sberry Sberry is offline
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down there new modern fuel inj engines should use the right oil too, they start so fast that it needs 5W 30 to build oil press fast. I would use what is recommended, no place to do amateur engineering.
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  #13  
Old 07-26-2004, 10:51 PM
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Markopolo Markopolo is offline
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True enough Franz ! When I lived "Up Nort", The ol' man admonished me to use 30 wt. in the summer, and 20 wt. in the winter.

Talk about your "propane pre-heat".....I heard a story once about some heavy equipment operators up in Alaska that were running BIG machines.

Now this MAY be bull$hit.....but what I was told was that they used to drag 30 gallon drums under the crankcase and build a wood fire in them !

Personally, that's kind of hard to believe, but then again, I've seen some pretty strange tricks in my life !
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  #14  
Old 07-26-2004, 11:43 PM
Franz Franz is offline
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Marko, you can believe that fire under the machine story.
I've personally seen a man burn railroad ties and chunks of tire around the tracks of a shovel that he was so smart as to park on wet dirt one night, and come back to find frozen down.
My Yanmar 240 is a cold blooded sombich to start below 30°, and with 30 weight in the oil pan, can be miserable to spin over at 0°. I brazed half a pipe coupling into the air pipe years ago, and generally stick a Propane torch in there to get her started when it's below 30. One of these years I need to get the damn tank heater installed so I can preheat the engine.
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  #15  
Old 07-26-2004, 11:46 PM
realhfd realhfd is offline
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I have been running a 'synthetic' in my jeep and have had good results. However, regarding what Franz said regarding what Shade had said, the guy I got mine from said there were a few, something like 3 or 4, esters that synthetics were based on, some being better than others. Additionally, per gov standards, only a fairly small percentage of the formula even had to be synthetic to be allowed to be called a 100% synthetic oil. So even if you run one you would thereby be still running an oil that was still mosty dino.
If Shade knows differently, it would bee interesting to know just what the scoop is.
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  #16  
Old 07-27-2004, 12:47 AM
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TheFrenchCanadian TheFrenchCanadian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markopolo
Now this MAY be bull$hit.....but what I was told was that they used to drag 30 gallon drums under the crankcase and build a wood fire in them !

That's no bull$hit. A friend of mine used to work in the oil fields in northern Alberta in the middle of nowhere, and he was telling me exactly that.

Saw it on TV once too (Big diesel 4x4s in Siberia), however, being a video editor in real life and all, I don't believe much of what I see on TV...

Luc
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  #17  
Old 07-27-2004, 08:57 AM
wed4life wed4life is offline
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The US Armed forces use it in their crankcases.
The benefits of synthetic far outweigh that of dino oil.

My own experience is that of which the vehicle starts at -40 degrees F., no problem. I like that reliability.

I do not leave it in as long as they recommend, but 4K miles not unreasonable.

Operating conditions very for each user, and some may go 7K -10K miles.

Synthetic does not break down like dino oil. There are better filter systems available as well.

Not to get in a pissing match, but I like synthetic, I will continue to use it because it is better. To each his own.
David
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  #18  
Old 07-27-2004, 10:24 AM
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wolfgangwelding wolfgangwelding is offline
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The biggest extrem I deal with is the heat of the summer. I think ill go with what I know and stick with dino oil. I also dont like the high cost of sinthetic.
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  #19  
Old 07-27-2004, 10:37 AM
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TheFrenchCanadian TheFrenchCanadian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markopolo
Who want's to prolong oil changes ? . . . The more often you drain, the more crap you get out of the engine ! Although I don't have a gasoline powered welding machine, I DO have a lot of other stuff that has gasoline engines, and, in my opinion, there's no better "insurance" for long engine life than regular oil & filter changes.
I agree. Synthetic has its place, but that's not in the crankcase of a daily driver automobile which is liquid cooled, and not normally under any undue stress. It's much more important to keep the oil clean (whatever oil it may be...). I think this alone will get you a lot farther that just using synthetic oil.

I've always put it in my motorcycles however, the main reason being that the gearbox is included in the crankcase and is lubricated by the engine oil. Because of this the oil tends to break down easily (the gears literally "cut it up" apparently), synthetic doesn't have a problem with this though.

In addition, my bikes are all air cooled, if by chance I get caught on a hot day driving too slowly (like behind a long string of RVs in the Black Hills twisties in 108°f heat going about 15 Mph for instance...) it's cheap insurance. The temperature in a situation such as that could burn up regular oil, and something else synthetic has going for it is a much higher flash point than regular oil (won't burn up as easily).

I put a lot less miles on my motorcycles than my cars though, so I can afford to spend $60 an oil change for Amsoil.

However my Ford Windstar gets regular oil and I change it every 3000 miles. Been doing the same for the last 6 cars/trucks I've owned and I've yet to have a problem related to lubrication.

Just for reference's sake, here's what Shade has to say about frequent oil changes, taken from the following discussion:http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/...read.php?t=131

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade Tree Welder
Mainly oil is changed because of the dirt load and comtamination. The additives in modern engine oil are still doing their job but the oil itself is dirty. Ash and soot are very abrasive. And you filter doesnt take it all out. Blow by is a function of the engine not the oil. So, hey run that synthetic 10,000 miles instead of 5,000 and all you will have is twice the abrasive slurry of dirt in your engine and twice the fuel dilution. hmmmmmm. For paying 4 times the cost for the oil. Seems stupid to me. But, hey what do I know. I just have a degree in Chemistry and 13 years in lubricants, but the marketing geniuses with MBA's can convince people to buy the synthetics. Oh, by the way if you tell the dealer mechanic you went 10,000 miles you just voided the warantee.
Just my $0.02.

Luc
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  #20  
Old 07-27-2004, 12:04 PM
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Franz
Find the oil drum story a little hard to swallow. Think you'd burn the machine down around you. I worked in the north for years. You just never shut down a diesel in that weather. They run all winter. Shut them down long enough to dump the oil and get them running again before they cool off.
We generally ran belly tarps under the engine to keep them warm. Driving down the road the air flow would cool them to much and even sitting at high idle they'd start slobbering (throughing unburn't fuel out the stack) The belly tarp was a canvas tarp that streched from the rad right back behind the tranny. Had to cover the tranny too or the oil would get so cold you couldn't shift.
The propane torch on the pan is common enough but to get an engine going that has shut down at 40 below you generally have to tarp the engine in and heat the whole thing with a diesel heater that uses a fan to blow the heat around.
From the frozen north,
Greg
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