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  #11  
Old 02-02-2019, 07:06 PM
Spencer Spencer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalWolf View Post
You could take off the cylinder and take it to a cylinder shop have the old style thread cut off and the newer or more recent thread piece rewelded back on...
I've had to do this to smaller cylinders before... for sure would be a bit pricy but not as pricy as buying a new cylinder...
I actually wondered if maybe the threaded end was welded on after it was manufacturered, but based on the other comments below it sounds likely it came from the factory this way.

I'd like to keep the cylinder intact if possible, so I'll probably either try to source an adapter or have one (or six) made.
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  #12  
Old 02-02-2019, 07:10 PM
Spencer Spencer is offline
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Originally Posted by digr View Post
First thing that I would would do is measure the thread pitch and and diameter then make threaded collars or if you can buy nuts to fit the rod with flat plate welded to nuts or collars. This will work as long as the threads on the ram bottom out on the plate. Or what I did with mine was to turn the end of the ram down to receive slip on collars held with a set screw which is nice when you have to make different adapters.
I had the seller operate the press to demonstrate that it worked, but because there was no threaded adapter on it we only ran it with no load. If after I put it under load it appears the cylinder will need new O-rings or otherwise be rebuilt, I at that time may consider getting it turned on a lathe to remove the threads.

If it seems to operate fine and I have no other reason to disassemble the cylinder I'll find a way to deal with the threads.
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  #13  
Old 02-02-2019, 07:14 PM
Spencer Spencer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade Tree Welder View Post
I concur, what ever you do make sure you don't transmit the force
through the threads. You will not be happy with that result!
Quote:
Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Like STW says, no force on the threads. The threads are only to attach something to the ram and not have it fall off. Whatever you attach has to bottom out on the end of the ram so all the force is on the ram via the item on the end of the ram, and none on the threads. You can make your own adapter and thread on a lathe to match the ram threads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LKeithR View Post
That would be my choice too but if you look at the pic of the ram there is very little shoulder on the end of the solid shaft--that big chamfer does away with quite a bit of it. In this case I think the best bet is to bottom the tools out on the end of the threaded portion--there's a lot more area to take a 75 ton load...
Understood, thanks for reinforcing this. I did suspect that no load should be applied to the threads, but was confused by the very small chamfered shoulder. Hopefully the seller will have at least the remnants of the old threaded adapter, even if it is destroyed beyond being functional, so that I can at least examine it and post pictures of it here for further advice.
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  #14  
Old 02-02-2019, 07:28 PM
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MetalWolf MetalWolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer View Post
I actually wondered if maybe the threaded end was welded on after it was manufacturered, but based on the other comments below it sounds likely it came from the factory this way.

I'd like to keep the cylinder intact if possible, so I'll probably either try to source an adapter or have one (or six) made.
The pic isn't close enough for my eyes but it does appear to be welded from the factory, but having the adapters made to fit the existing threads is a good idea and prolly more cost-effective... another thing is the threads you will prolly need to know if it is a tight fit or lose fit as I believe that will even have an effect on the force of the adapter due to the amount of force even when bottomed out on the adapter but should be able to tell I think by the number of threads and pitch by the existing cylinder threads...

I may be wrong but I'm sure one of the others can say yea or nay or if that is critical or not...
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  #15  
Old 02-02-2019, 07:31 PM
Spencer Spencer is offline
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Originally Posted by LKeithR View Post
...As far as the press is concerned you won't find anything better than OTC. They make (made?) good stuff. What other things did you see that you didn't like?
Only two items really. The ram itself has at least one ding in it. You can see it just slightly offset to the left of center of the ram right at the 6" mark on my tape measure in the first picture I posted. I have no idea what kind of an impact that may have on the operation, but I'd sure prefer it wasn't there.

I've posted a close up photo of that nick. This press has been in a vocational school probably since it was new at least 20 years or so ago. Undoubtedly some kid who was not properly trained or receiving the proper supervision had a crap your pants kind of moment causing the damage.

The second thing I wasn't really thrilled about can be overcome and may actually turn out to be a blessing, but will likely cost me more money.

Most all the shop presses I've seen have the upper structure that holds the cylinder fixed to the upright support and it is the lower structure that you place the arbor or press plates on that adjusts up or down (often assisted by a hand-cranked winch).

For some reason on this press it is the upper structure that can be raised or lowered and the bottom structure is fixed.

You can see the other attached photo below that the bottom structure is currently only 32" off the floor. I think there was one or two more sets of holes that this lower structure could be moved to, but they were both lower to the floor.

I don't see any reason why I couldn't make some additional holes to get the bottom structure to a comfortable height, but I don't really have the proper drill rig for that task. It sounds like a job for a mag drill with an annular cutter. I think the holes are 7/8" or 1" in diameter and the uprights are at least 3/4" thick.
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  #16  
Old 02-02-2019, 07:39 PM
Spencer Spencer is offline
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The guy in the last photo I posted above is the shop teacher. I heaped all kinds of praise on him for doing the job he's doing. As you all know, we need more kids to be interested in these types of activities, so I have a lot of respect for anyone who devotes their career to teaching and inspiring our youth these kinds of skills.

Here are the arbor or press plates (whatever is the correct term) that I don't think he originally planned on letting go with the press. They were not in any of the photos posted on the auction site and when I asked him where the plates were that had been used with the press he reluctantly took me to another part of the shop where they were being stored on a lower shelf of a shop table near that Ironworker that will now be there only press.

I told him I really needed them, as the press is fairly useless without them and he agreed to include them. I may end up wanting to make or purchase some different plates in the future, but I sure didn't want to have to right out of the gate. A quick Internet search shows just how expensive plates are for the larger presses like this.

I'm assuming I can flip these things upside down in the press and use the flat edge.
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  #17  
Old 02-02-2019, 07:41 PM
Spencer Spencer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywynd View Post
Quite common for threads on cylinders depending on application.

They will however, often be an extra fine thread or something like that.

If you can get the OD and pitch, chances are that we can look it up and find the actual size.

I was always having to find thread sizes at the last 9-5 for the millwrights, as we had a big mix of imperial and metric threads.


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Thank you, I'll likely take you up on the offer to research the threads. I have never used thread gauges before, but I have both a metric and SAE set that came with a tap and die set I have, so I'll post pics Monday if I can.
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  #18  
Old 02-02-2019, 07:46 PM
Spencer Spencer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lu47Dan View Post
I am sure, that someone around here could make an adapter from the threaded shaft to slip on or in.
Meaning, make a collar to thread on and guide the tooling to the end of the ram.
A collar with a clear bore of 1" diameter would allow you to slip the tool in, protect the threads and push on the rnd of the ram.
Dan.
I'm not sure who you are volunteering, but if I do indeed end up having to have some made, I'd just assume pay someone here instead of finding a local machine shop.

I actually have an old metal lathe rusting away in the corner of my shop that my father gave me years ago. I just never found the time to learn how to use it yet, but hope to spend some time this Spring or Summer doing so, as I really would like to learn at least the basics of using one. Even if I did start learning how to use it, it would be quite a while before I'd be able to make an item like this threaded adapter.
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  #19  
Old 02-02-2019, 07:59 PM
Spencer Spencer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LKeithR View Post
...As far as the press is concerned you won't find anything better than OTC. They make (made?) good stuff...
I have quite a few things from OTC and I agree they make good stuff. I actually never knew that OTC stood for Owatonna Tool Company, but I knew they were an American company (at least at one time).

It looks like at the time this was made it was done so in Owatonna Minnesota. It is beefy

I've been searching for a used press for about 8 months, but had no luck finding anything that seemed like a bargain.

I wanted true electric hydraulic and there is just not much used around me other than manual presses or air over hydraulic. I was almost ready to break down and purchase a new Redline 50-Ton electric hydraulic unit when I came across this OTC. I was at a vocational school across the other side of the State from my house, but I just happened to need to be within 2 miles of the school to look at a job that same afternoon I found the auction, so I stopped by to inspect it in person.

The bottom structure is made of 3/4" steel plates that are 14" tall, with about 8 1/4" clearance between the plates.
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  #20  
Old 02-02-2019, 08:02 PM
Spencer Spencer is offline
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The pump is a two-stage OTC Vanguard Jr. It is quite dirty, but I suspect it will clean up well. I hope the filth is not an indication of a leak or issue with the pump, as these pumps seem to cost around three grand all by themselves.
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