Shop Floor Talk  

Go Back   Shop Floor Talk > Welding and Metalworking Forums > Machining

SFT Search:   
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-26-2009, 01:22 PM
Bolt Bolt is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,267
Default Removing exhaust manifold bolts

I have a 240 hp tractor with 5500 hours on it. There are currently 4 exhaust manifold bolts that are broken off in the block. They have probably been in there 4000 hours or so, they have broken before, and they did it under warranty back then. I'm hoping they used antiseize, and I'm pretty sure all new bolts went back in there. I know they had a heck of a time doing it and had to get a machinist to do one or two of them. So, anybody got any pointers? Drill and ease out, weld and remove, etc? Have the dealer do it again? They are not terribly hard to get to, on the outside of the frame, most are accessible when removing a few accessories, and the bolts are horizontal.

Any tips for keeping it from happening again? Maybe drill out the ears a bit larger? The ears do not sit flat on the face of the head, if that makes any sense, just the gasket surface of the manifold does.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-26-2009, 01:55 PM
midmosandblasting's Avatar
midmosandblasting midmosandblasting is offline
Blast this!
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Calhoun ,Mo
Posts: 8,920
Default

No real positive way.The best we have at the nephews garage is to drill through ,knocker loose them ,weld a washer then a nut .The heat with the penetrating oil seems to do the trick.You can try the drill and easy out and heat that way if it breaks next step is to weld a nut.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-26-2009, 02:03 PM
trukfan's Avatar
trukfan trukfan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Elkhorn, WI
Posts: 416
Default

Depending on how far down into the hole the break is/was, I've always welded them. I try to build up the surface first, on top of the busted bolt, then take my nut, slip it over and then finsh welding. Most times, it turns right out. If it doesn't, I either quench it right away w/ penetrating oil, and if it still doesn't come, I'll give it a few sharp raps w/ a ball peen hammer. Those methods have worked almost eveytime for me. I've never had luck w/ easy-outs. I broke one the first time I tried, and never tried again. Is this the actual manifod w/ the broken bolts, or part of the manifold for the turbo? Personally, I'd see if I couldn't somehow get a shim or washer under the ears to keep them from flexing, but that probably isn't very feasible, or you would've already tried it.
__________________
"Common sense is the knack of seeing things as they are, and doing things as they ought to be done." Josh Billings

"Destiny is no matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved." William Jennings Bryan
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-26-2009, 02:13 PM
precisionworks's Avatar
precisionworks precisionworks is offline
American Tools Keep Americans Working
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Benton, IL
Posts: 3,177
Default

Quote:
So, anybody got any pointers?
Messer MG600 will suck those right out. Here's a short thread on how I do it:

http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtal...ad.php?t=14860

I removed one last week, using my inverter TIG as the stick power supply. Nice paying job since it was portable (in the customer's shop). Took me two hours and 15 large nuts before one stuck on well enough to turn the stud. Plus the position was as bad as it gets, much harder than overhead (which isn't bad with MG600).

Well worth what it costs, which (today) should be around $80 for a 2# package.
__________________
Barry Milton - Please email or PayPal through PrecisionWorks.co
PM's are disabled
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-26-2009, 03:21 PM
precisionworks's Avatar
precisionworks precisionworks is offline
American Tools Keep Americans Working
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Benton, IL
Posts: 3,177
Default

Quote:
one stuck on well enough to turn the stud
Reality was that the one that finally pulled the stud has only a tiny weld stem connecting the stud to the nut. Stud was about 3/8", weld stem was no more than 1/8". Amazing that it could transmit any torque at all, much less the twist from an 18" Crescent wrench.

Gave my customer the bill ($200 for time & rods burned) ... he said he would have gladly paid twice that amount

Wish he'd told me before the ticket was made out.
__________________
Barry Milton - Please email or PayPal through PrecisionWorks.co
PM's are disabled
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-26-2009, 03:32 PM
platypus20's Avatar
platypus20 platypus20 is offline
Boiler God
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: camillus, ny (syracuse)
Posts: 10,022
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by precisionworks View Post
Messer MG600 will suck those right out. Here's a short thread on how I do it:

http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtal...ad.php?t=14860

I removed one last week, using my inverter TIG as the stick power supply. Nice paying job since it was portable (in the customer's shop). Took me two hours and 15 large nuts before one stuck on well enough to turn the stud. Plus the position was as bad as it gets, much harder than overhead (which isn't bad with MG600).

Well worth what it costs, which (today) should be around $80 for a 2# package.
I've used MG600 for a long time, it does work exactly as it says, I also use it to weld up burner housing on boilers. I works great for that as it has a great elongation rate, will expand and contract in the boiler without cracking. The last time I bought some, I bought 10# of 3/32", and it was about $420. Very expensive, but well worth it when it work as well as it does.

Jack
__________________
jack
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-26-2009, 04:00 PM
MAC702's Avatar
MAC702 MAC702 is offline
set phasers to .50 caliber
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Clark County, NV
Posts: 4,314
Default

mercury fulminate in just the right place...
__________________
"It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive." - Jimmy the Tulip
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-26-2009, 05:10 PM
Bolt Bolt is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,267
Default

I talked to the service manager and he said the guy that did it last time isn't there anymore, and knowing him, he sure didn't use any anti-seize. They just drill and tap them, they do quite a few of them, they have tried to get the mfg to do something about it, but not much luck. They came out with a bushing kit to put under the ears of the manifold to try and take some stress off, but he doesn't see it working very well. But most of his gripes with corporate are moot points now, as they are now putting a new motor in new models, so it's now a cummins problem if it happens again.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-26-2009, 10:16 PM
Team DeSade's Avatar
Team DeSade Team DeSade is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Acworth, Ga.
Posts: 1,124
Send a message via AIM to Team DeSade
Default

There was a recent thread on this, I think over at Practical Machinist. The best options I remember were:

use heat to expand the metal and break the rust locking the parts together.

Weld a nut to the top of the stud and then turn it out.

Use a left hand drill bit to drill it out. At some point drill may catch and spin it out.

Use penetrating oil and heat.

And my favorite that I picked up over there (copied directly when I read the thread):

The "Candle Trick" was shown to me a number of years ago. It works better than PB Blaster, oil of wintergreen, brake fluid, or any other product I have tried. Find an old candle stub. Heat the bolt with a propane torch. It does not have to be real hot. Shove the old candle against the fastener letting the wax melt into the joints. Repeat this process a couple more times. When cool enough remove the bolt or nut. I have removed the rusted and frozen radius arm nuts from Ford front ends with just my fingers after initially loosening the nut with an easy twist from a hand wrench. I just heat the parts up with the torch again to boil off the wax when cleaning is required.

Obviously some of these could be used together like the candle trick along with any of the mechanical removal methods.
__________________
---------
Terry
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-26-2009, 10:20 PM
Team DeSade's Avatar
Team DeSade Team DeSade is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Acworth, Ga.
Posts: 1,124
Send a message via AIM to Team DeSade
Default

Found the link. It was on Garage Journal.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=28076
__________________
---------
Terry
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Web Search:

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.