Shop Floor Talk  

Go Back   Shop Floor Talk > Welding and Metalworking Forums > Welding

SFT Search:   
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 02-19-2013, 04:51 PM
LW Hiway's Avatar
LW Hiway LW Hiway is offline
Lord of the Minions
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fuck Lake Charles
Posts: 21,403
Default

Digging into my experiences Jen, O&A welding is not like TIG or MIG or Stick, as the latter three are much more forgiving as the gas welding is more critical towards technique and setup. Not to say that the others do not each have their own specific needs.

I can say without a doubt that laying off doing gas welds for a few months takes considerably more time to fluff off the rust over MIG or Stick as the latter can be somewhat more forgiving and less visually critical once a few beads are laid.

With all of the years of doing aircraft & mc frame builds and fixes on tubing and other material shapes I can tell you with little doubt that for me, a lapse of 6 mos between jobs kills me to get that rythym back with O&A.

I continually have to remind myself when frustrated with ability concerning my gas welds that electric welding equipment was not so much invented because gas welding was not good enough for the industry of the time as it was to increase productions of the times.

It's amazing just how much of a 'lost art' gas welding is and just how many materials relied on fusion by gas welding. Blows my mind every time I look at those 'old guys' doing deck plates of 1" thick with gas handles and rods, or Al beads laid down that look more like a TIG process stack of dimes using gas. The bastards make it look so darn easy.

It's all a matter of just how much time daily you want to spend humped over your torch and again, how often.

I think your welds would work on anything at my shop, as the rest of you guys as well.

For me, before the rust is shook off, a flap disk or grinder applies lipstick and makeup for those that are that concerned with appearances.
__________________
God, if you would grant me one request through Prayer, please help me be the Man my Dog thinks I am. Please.

Quoting "The Hunt". "A man will walk into hell with both eyes and arms wide open. His dog will know better."

I never thought I'd live long enough to become a grumpy old bastard. Here I am, killing it!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-19-2013, 05:53 PM
cramd's Avatar
cramd cramd is offline
Drivin' Fool
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yorkton, Saskatchewan,Canada
Posts: 4,333
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LW Hiway View Post
Digging into my experiences Jen, O&A welding is not like TIG or MIG or Stick, as the latter three are much more forgiving as the gas welding is more critical towards technique and setup. Not to say that the others do not each have their own specific needs.

I can say without a doubt that laying off doing gas welds for a few months takes considerably more time to fluff off the rust over MIG or Stick as the latter can be somewhat more forgiving and less visually critical once a few beads are laid.

With all of the years of doing aircraft & mc frame builds and fixes on tubing and other material shapes I can tell you with little doubt that for me, a lapse of 6 mos between jobs kills me to get that rythym back with O&A.

I continually have to remind myself when frustrated with ability concerning my gas welds that electric welding equipment was not so much invented because gas welding was not good enough for the industry of the time as it was to increase productions of the times.

It's amazing just how much of a 'lost art' gas welding is and just how many materials relied on fusion by gas welding. Blows my mind every time I look at those 'old guys' doing deck plates of 1" thick with gas handles and rods, or Al beads laid down that look more like a TIG process stack of dimes using gas. The bastards make it look so darn easy.

It's all a matter of just how much time daily you want to spend humped over your torch and again, how often.

I think your welds would work on anything at my shop, as the rest of you guys as well.

For me, before the rust is shook off, a flap disk or grinder applies lipstick and makeup for those that are that concerned with appearances.
When I first started in the natural gas construction field, I worked with a welder that broke out in the early '50s. He told me one of the first jobs he had after graduating from tech school, was working on the construction of a small refinery in Saskatoon. He said the majority of the welding was done with oxy/acetylene, but the acetylene was generated on site, instead of using pre-filled bottles.
That old timer was one of the smoothest oxy/acetylene welders I have ever worked with, and was a true craftsman in every way (equally good with a stick welder also).
__________________
Miller Thunderbolt XL AC/DC
Hobart Handler 190
Angle grinders,14" chop saw,Hobart medium duty O/A set
Some air tools,fair selection of hand tools,and other "stuff"
____________________________________________

The difference between genius and stupidity, is that genius has limits. Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-19-2013, 08:29 PM
allessence's Avatar
allessence allessence is offline
Gadget Girl
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: MA, 01543
Posts: 6,683
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LW Hiway View Post
Digging into my experiences Jen, O&A welding is not like TIG or MIG or Stick, as the latter three are much more forgiving as the gas welding is more critical towards technique and setup. Not to say that the others do not each have their own specific needs.

I can say without a doubt that laying off doing gas welds for a few months takes considerably more time to fluff off the rust over MIG or Stick as the latter can be somewhat more forgiving and less visually critical once a few beads are laid.

With all of the years of doing aircraft & mc frame builds and fixes on tubing and other material shapes I can tell you with little doubt that for me, a lapse of 6 mos between jobs kills me to get that rythym back with O&A.

I continually have to remind myself when frustrated with ability concerning my gas welds that electric welding equipment was not so much invented because gas welding was not good enough for the industry of the time as it was to increase productions of the times.

It's amazing just how much of a 'lost art' gas welding is and just how many materials relied on fusion by gas welding. Blows my mind every time I look at those 'old guys' doing deck plates of 1" thick with gas handles and rods, or Al beads laid down that look more like a TIG process stack of dimes using gas. The bastards make it look so darn easy.

It's all a matter of just how much time daily you want to spend humped over your torch and again, how often.

I think your welds would work on anything at my shop, as the rest of you guys as well.

For me, before the rust is shook off, a flap disk or grinder applies lipstick and makeup for those that are that concerned with appearances.

Nicely said.. I'd still like to see some of you fresh gas welds without the grinding to purity them up... I guess you could say I have a greater appreciation for gas welding now then I did 20 years ago..

I've been having a blast with it.. and have found that each process GAs, STick, MIg, Tig each has there favorite spots.. But I lean towards clean and then fast.. Tig is my favorite but again, Gas welding now seems a lot more fun and challenging..

Quote:
Originally Posted by cramd View Post
When I first started in the natural gas construction field, I worked with a welder that broke out in the early '50s. He told me one of the first jobs he had after graduating from tech school, was working on the construction of a small refinery in Saskatoon. He said the majority of the welding was done with oxy/acetylene, but the acetylene was generated on site, instead of using pre-filled bottles.
That old timer was one of the smoothest oxy/acetylene welders I have ever worked with, and was a true craftsman in every way (equally good with a stick welder also).
It is funny how now the old timers aren't that old.. Back in the day when I first started Blacksmithing there were still a few real blacksmiths around though retired and they would give you the Ah, what the hell you doing. Hesus Crispy. Why you making this out to be such an issue. Just doing it like this..

Slap self in head, Duh, why didn't I think about this..
__________________
_________________
Jennifer

If I defend myself I am attacked.

My meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world.

My attack thoughts are attacking my invulnerability.

I'd like to think of something smart, but I don't want to hurt myself.

My google+ page

DoALL 36"
Another Johnson model J Project
Lathe? Maybe..... 1958 SBL 13"
Yeti Esseti Aka running welder on 3phase.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-19-2013, 10:18 PM
CEC's Avatar
CEC CEC is offline
Over the Top
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: S.E. Ga
Posts: 2,705
Default

Jen,
Great thread. My first experience welding was with O/A I actually used a cutting torch to join two pieces of plate down for a floor board in the 48 willy.
I've posted a few examples in the past where I welded with O/A.

The branding Iron.

Tractor Muffler Repair

I've got the aluminum pan I made my father many years ago. He cut the sheet out and I O/A the corners up for him. He left it at work when he retired back in 99. My brother-in-law got it for me from the plant a while back. I'll try to get a picture of it and post it tomorrow.
__________________
"There is one advantage to having nothing, it never needs repair. " - Frank A. Clark -
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-20-2013, 01:58 AM
Harvuskong's Avatar
Harvuskong Harvuskong is offline
The Enforcer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Big Country Area, TX - Abilene TX area
Posts: 3,764
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by allessence View Post

These beads were done with Harris journeyman regulators..

7 psi A, 10psi O

Size 0 tip

Neutral flame.
I am a little late to this topic, but here it goes.

As I recall, O/A pressures are supposed to be equal for welding regardless of pressure setting used.

Brand of regulators is interesting information.

Neutral flame is correct flame.

My college basic welding class was about 40 years ago, and it was nearly all O/A welding and brazing.

I did get a passing grade.
__________________
Running away is the coward's way out of war.
Appeasement is the coward's way into one.


Barack Hussein Obama is our enemies favorite candidate


In time the right project will find the scrap pile, no need for the scrap pile to go out looking for a project.

http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=24981

http://tosettherecordstraight.com/index.php

Last edited by Harvuskong; 02-20-2013 at 02:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-20-2013, 06:23 AM
allessence's Avatar
allessence allessence is offline
Gadget Girl
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: MA, 01543
Posts: 6,683
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CEC View Post
Jen,
Great thread. My first experience welding was with O/A I actually used a cutting torch to join two pieces of plate down for a floor board in the 48 willy.
I've posted a few examples in the past where I welded with O/A.

The branding Iron.

Tractor Muffler Repair

I've got the aluminum pan I made my father many years ago. He cut the sheet out and I O/A the corners up for him. He left it at work when he retired back in 99. My brother-in-law got it for me from the plant a while back. I'll try to get a picture of it and post it tomorrow.

all the Gas welding you've shown looks great.. Can't wait to see the pic's of the pan.. I've never welded Alum with AO..

Do you remember what settings and tips you used for your projects?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvuskong View Post
I am a little late to this topic, but here it goes.

As I recall, O/A pressures are supposed to be equal for welding regardless of pressure setting used.

Brand of regulators is interesting information.

Neutral flame is correct flame.

My college basic welding class was about 40 years ago, and it was nearly all O/A welding and brazing.

I did get a passing grade.

Yes you are correct usually a 1:1 5psi A = 5psi O but this also depends on the make and model of torch..

from what I understand, (I could be wrong) as long as you have a neutral flame welding will be the same for the most part..

I have found that with running the O slightly higher I can do a little larger thickness with a smaller tip.. Again. If I'm wrong someone chime in..

That is after all what this thread is about..
__________________
_________________
Jennifer

If I defend myself I am attacked.

My meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world.

My attack thoughts are attacking my invulnerability.

I'd like to think of something smart, but I don't want to hurt myself.

My google+ page

DoALL 36"
Another Johnson model J Project
Lathe? Maybe..... 1958 SBL 13"
Yeti Esseti Aka running welder on 3phase.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-21-2013, 02:39 AM
Floptop's Avatar
Floptop Floptop is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Blackie, AB. Canada
Posts: 1,583
Default

Well Jen, although I seem to be A/O welding a fair bit as of late I have not much to show picture wise. So yesterday afternoon, after seeing this thread I played a little. Just trying different things and running a few beads on some scraps, I by no means consider myself a master of gas welding but enjoy the heck out it.
All welds were made with a #2 tip as thats all I have.

1. Top view after buffing weld on wire wheel, .040" material, 1/16" filler rod, neutral flame.
2. Bottom view of same weld, very inconsistent penetration, I think I was moving faster as I progressed right to left. Not very impressed.
3. Set-up for next 2 attempts, .056" material, 1/16" gap and once again 1/16" filler rod.
4. Top of both beads. Upper weld was done first and has hardly any filler, in some places the bead is a little below the surface of the parent material. I was concentrating way more on the puddle and less on the filler.
Lower weld was done second and I over did it on adding more filler, I should have taken this picture at more of an angle to show the difference. I was manipulating the flame more on this pass, getting the puddle nice and hot then drawing back to add more filler.
5. Bottoms of same beads, the upper weld that had the concave bead profile on top has a decent bead on the bottom, while the lower weld with the excess filler also has way better penetration than my first weld. Still not great but getting better. The distortion in the material at the end of the weld was induced by the weld process, the pieces started out flat, must have been from the flame manipulation?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	weld 1.jpg
Views:	169
Size:	53.9 KB
ID:	102078   Click image for larger version

Name:	weld 2.jpg
Views:	172
Size:	62.0 KB
ID:	102079   Click image for larger version

Name:	weld 3.jpg
Views:	165
Size:	64.5 KB
ID:	102080   Click image for larger version

Name:	weld 4.jpg
Views:	158
Size:	41.6 KB
ID:	102081   Click image for larger version

Name:	weld 5.jpg
Views:	160
Size:	67.4 KB
ID:	102082  

__________________
why do all my favorite pastimes, except one , require a helmet?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-21-2013, 02:48 AM
Floptop's Avatar
Floptop Floptop is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Blackie, AB. Canada
Posts: 1,583
Default

6. Same material and gap as last two welds but changed to 3/32" filler rod. Top bead profile is fair, dabbing the bigger rod into the puddle sure sheilds the puddle from the heat of the flame as compared to the smaller rod.
7. Bottom of same bead shows fairly consistant lack of penetration.
8 & 9. Same weld after wire wheel.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	weld 6.jpg
Views:	143
Size:	53.0 KB
ID:	102083   Click image for larger version

Name:	weld 7.jpg
Views:	141
Size:	68.3 KB
ID:	102084   Click image for larger version

Name:	weld 8.jpg
Views:	140
Size:	52.1 KB
ID:	102085   Click image for larger version

Name:	weld 9.jpg
Views:	131
Size:	62.7 KB
ID:	102086  
__________________
why do all my favorite pastimes, except one , require a helmet?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 02-21-2013, 02:57 AM
Floptop's Avatar
Floptop Floptop is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Blackie, AB. Canada
Posts: 1,583
Default

10. .120" material, 3/32 rod, 3/32" gap. Ran a bit bigger flame than on the thinner material, almost to the max for this tip.
11. Top bead profile looks good, nicely wetted into the sides and seems about the right height.
12. Bottom once again shows lack of penetration.
13 & 14. Same welds after cleanup.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	weld 10.jpg
Views:	129
Size:	56.5 KB
ID:	102087   Click image for larger version

Name:	weld 11.jpg
Views:	134
Size:	48.2 KB
ID:	102088   Click image for larger version

Name:	weld 12.jpg
Views:	154
Size:	51.6 KB
ID:	102089   Click image for larger version

Name:	weld 13.jpg
Views:	160
Size:	56.3 KB
ID:	102090   Click image for larger version

Name:	weld 14.jpg
Views:	136
Size:	65.0 KB
ID:	102091  

__________________
why do all my favorite pastimes, except one , require a helmet?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 02-21-2013, 03:14 AM
Floptop's Avatar
Floptop Floptop is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Blackie, AB. Canada
Posts: 1,583
Default

15. This weld is on .100" material, 3/32 filler and came out pretty good.
16. Back side of same weld has better penetration than the last weld, still not great but better.

Then I remembered that you were interested in pressures and decided to check mine. I thought they were at 5 & 5 but they were amost 11 each. Reset them to 5 & 5 and tried another bead.

17. Back to the .056" material and 1/16" filler, gap about same as material thickness. I burned a hole through in the first 1/4 to 1/2 inch and came back to fill it after completing the bead. I didn't notice any difference due to the pressure at the regulators, as the flame was about the same size as on my previous attempts with this material I would assume that the pressure from the handle valves to the tip were the same.
18. Bottom of same bead.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	weld 15.jpg
Views:	144
Size:	40.3 KB
ID:	102092   Click image for larger version

Name:	weld 16.jpg
Views:	123
Size:	52.6 KB
ID:	102093   Click image for larger version

Name:	weld 17.jpg
Views:	146
Size:	61.1 KB
ID:	102094   Click image for larger version

Name:	weld 18.jpg
Views:	124
Size:	48.5 KB
ID:	102095  
__________________
why do all my favorite pastimes, except one , require a helmet?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Web Search:

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.