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  #31  
Old 08-15-2023, 08:23 AM
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greywynd greywynd is offline
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Originally Posted by Matt Shade View Post
This one really puzzled me because he came from a high end barn that does some pretty serious showing and is pretty high rent and he otherwise was very well cared for. I'd have thought they'd have found someone to make him some shoes that fit
There is a very serious farrier shortage though, I get calls all the time asking me to to shoe horses, or find someone that will shoe horses for them and I'm not even trying to make that my job.

Heck even if they’d kept him trimmed properly would have helped.

I know when I was involved with horses I did our own trimming, most of our ‘ground’ was soft enough we only needed shoes for special cases. We had a farrier that we used for shoeing, and I did the trimming. He was a great mentor as well, and was willing to give advice and pointers as needed, but overall seemed to like my trim work.

For those that don’t know, a horses foot has to be corrected gradually, or it can hurt or damage muscles. Think of a person walking normally, versus a ballerina that is on tiptoe, and the difference in the muscles used. It’s a similar effect when a horse isn’t trimmed or shod properly.


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  #32  
Old 08-15-2023, 06:22 PM
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Yeah keeping the toe cut back and not letting the hoof get so distorted would have gone a long way to preventing the crushed heels. I find a lot of the "hunter" shows we go to horses have their heels cut down and long toes and I always wonder how they stay sound. Have actually had people comment that my horses are all "shod like quarter horses and not like hunters" ...most of mine ARE quarter horses but they jump a lot better when they have heels

I'm not even trying to make it a pissing match or a matter of who knows more, I just do what has kept my horses the most sound over the years and I see lots of folks doing stuff I have never been able to get away with.
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  #33  
Old 08-15-2023, 07:01 PM
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Back then I meant it as a descriptive compliment not knowing that it was actually an occupation. You really have a talent for the science and a love for the animals that I think you should consider expanding on. Get those certs or maybe even recruit some farriers and teach them--for a tuition fee, of course.

So are those wedges sort of like the wedge shoes human athletes wear to increase the strength in their calves? Like walking on your toes? Did his height increase at all? How is he as a training horse? Why would they have such a large horse for training? Any advantages/disadvantages? Is he still an asshole?

Thinking about the learning we all have obtained from SFT, I can honestly say you have provided me (and I'm sure others) with a wealth of information regarding horses and the "sport". I didn't grow up around horses and the last time I rode was maybe 30 years ago? (below)

My cousin was in town and wanted to go horseback riding. So a few phone calls and I found a stable next town over (Middletown, RI) that had guided rides. A half dozen of us went for a ride around a number of farmers fields, maybe 1-2 miles total. My first horse had a very pleasant gait and a smooth fast trot but my cousin had an unpleasant horse and begged me to switch with her, which I did. The horse I got from her was a thumpy, bone-jarring ride both slow and fast. While passing from one field to another, there was a RM125 motocross dirtbike just leaning against a tree with no one around. I suggested to the guide that I might ride that back to the stable instead... Coincidentally, one usually "mounts" a motorcycle from the left side, just like a horse!

We had passes to SeaWorld (Orlando) when the kids were young. I mainly went to ride the roller coasters. Anheiser-Busch used to be a "sponsor" and had a pavilion and stables there for some Clydesdales. Truly magnificent beasts, the commercials showing them with wagons behind them belie how large they actually are. For a fee you could buy carrots to feed them and the tip of the nose/mouth was bigger than a basketball!

Another benefit of the A-B sponsorship was the pavilion where one of legal age could get up to four free 6oz beer "samples" at a time. Unfortunately, the line was always long, especially in the late afternoon...

We've also been soaked by Shamu on many occasions before SW went woke... (ie: "Blackfish")
Certification is an odd thing. It's not required in Ohio and I know some very talented guys that never got it. There are 2 or 3 main organizations that offer it and the complaint I get the most is that passing depends on who performed your test and how well you could play their games. There is a very ingrained "this is how I do it and how everyone must do it" mentality.
I kind of make the horse a mechanical problem. I have developed a decent understanding of how the leg works and can understand how variables can change that. There is almost always more than one approach that will achieve the desired results, so I don't like forcing people to do what grandpa did, if they have a way that works for them and still makes a happy horse.

The wedges are mainly to align the bones in the horses leg/foot. The pic I attached is stolen off the internet but you can see the bones and how they relate to the foot. The pointy bone at the end is called the coffin bone, or P3 and it is encapsulated by the hoof. Changing the bottom of the hoof so that it tips forward or backwards effects how this bone lines up to the bones above it.

Trying to align the front edge of the hoof to the front edge of the ankle is a good rule of thumb, but sometimes you can't really tell what is going on without taking an X-ray. In Jack's case I actually have gotten to look at X-rays of both feet and talked over the angle changes with a vet.

Just like people, horses have opposing tendons and ligaments in their legs also. There is a balance point between the two and tendons can get used to a certain amount of stretch/stress. If you have grown accustomed to wearing flip flops, and then I stuck you in a pair of logger boots with 2 inch heels your body would need time to adjust. Extreme low or high angles on the hoof trim can lead to over stressed tendons, and changing them too fast can also cause issues.


Jack's size is to our advantage because students come in all sizes now. A horse can only carry so much weight. Usually 25-30 percent of their body weight is considered an absolute max and that includes rider and tack. We teach from 6 years old and up. The college Phys Ed class we teach has seen everything from D1 football players to balerinas. We do advertise a weight limit but it is mostly on the honor system. The majority of the equestrian team riders are very fit, but fit means different things when one rider also runs cross country, and another holds a state record in power lifting. Having a draft built horse that isn't overly tall has its advantages at times.
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  #34  
Old 08-17-2023, 07:24 AM
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OK<so i know nothing about horses or their feet,but i read what your saying and i watch the youtubes sometimes of the hoof trimming and even i can see its an "art".
Some of the hoof's i see on youtube makes me want to slap the animals owner.
Carry on,its interesting stuff.
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  #35  
Old 08-23-2023, 07:03 PM
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Matt, you are on a slippery slope..

You have a lot more going on here vs just crushed heels and long toe.

The sole is displaced (sunk some) and the extra flaring is due to this displacement.

What you will find is the extra pressure in the heels will be absorbed by the hoof wall and the heels and sole will flatten more..

The Coffin bone needs to be at the angle it would naturally be at.. If you have the shoes on the horse it is the whole hoof capsule that is moving forwards.

What you are seeing here is what I see with 95% of my new customers.

It's as normal as breathing.

Sadly the way to fix it involves getting less pressure on the heels and more on the sole..

Pull the toe back so there is less leverage pulling on the toe.. Basically, the horse is going to end up a prime candidate for navicular issues..

If you pull the shoes and see any heel bruising or compressed and deformed heels and bars then your shoeing is contributing to the issue.

Moving the hoof to what seems like a better angle is an illusion based on an outdated model.

The reason why the front looks like the angle is off is simply that the front of the hoof capsule is distorted..

It's easy to see if you look at the toes white line and hoof wall thickness.

You will see the horn tubules are on the side vs end.. So instead of a little dot it will be shown as a light line..
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  #36  
Old 08-23-2023, 07:06 PM
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The toe hoof wall will be wider than the straighter heel quarters hoof wall.

It should not be. It should be the same thickness all the way around naturally without human intervention..

As a human you might have to pull this area back to take some of the leveraging pressure off the hoof wall in the toe.
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  #37  
Old 08-23-2023, 08:18 PM
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I have been backing the toe up and I have x rays to confirm the angle of the coffin bone. He is much better than where he started. The vets are all happy with his feet now.
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  #38  
Old 08-24-2023, 10:44 AM
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Matt that's great if you're happy with what's going on.

More power to you.

I would love to see what's going on a year from now or even 2 years from now and see how your progress is taking place.

I wish you the best .

I'm working on between 40 and 70 horses a week so anyways take it for what it's worth have a good one.
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