Shop Floor Talk  

Go Back   Shop Floor Talk > Welding and Metalworking Forums > Mechanical & Electrical

SFT Search:   
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 12-21-2020, 09:38 PM
Randyjaco's Avatar
Randyjaco Randyjaco is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Friendswood, TX
Posts: 664
Default

More pictures

First Picture Terminal strip from Control Box
#1 red connects to fuse and becomes #8 on the transformer
#2 red connects to 13NO
#3 red connects to 95NC
#4 red connects to A2 on Mystery Box
#7 red connects to A1 on Mystery Box

Picture 2 is what I am calling the Mystery Box

Picture 3 Mystery Box

Picture 4 Mystery box end

Picture 5 Mystery Box back

More annotation to follow
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20201221_195244.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	181.5 KB
ID:	158908   Click image for larger version

Name:	20201221_193850.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	180.1 KB
ID:	158909   Click image for larger version

Name:	20201220_123928.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	182.2 KB
ID:	158910   Click image for larger version

Name:	20201221_193845.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	175.9 KB
ID:	158911   Click image for larger version

Name:	20201221_193855.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	182.3 KB
ID:	158912  

__________________
"There are three and only three ways to reform our Congressional legislation, familiarly called, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box" (Frederick Douglass)

Last edited by Randyjaco; 12-21-2020 at 09:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 12-22-2020, 01:49 PM
Randyjaco's Avatar
Randyjaco Randyjaco is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Friendswood, TX
Posts: 664
Default

OK, more pictures. I just discovered that I can annotate pictures on my phone.
So, below are new and improved pictures of my wiring based on pre-disassembly pictures. So currently this is how I have everything wired. Each wire now has a home.
The MysteryBox now appears to be some sort of relay for the coolant motor relay. Its new name will be Coolant Motor Relay (CMR) unless someone has a more accurate description. The thin red numbered wires should be 28 volts.

First picture = Starter front
2 picture = Transformer
3 picture = Coolant Motor Relay CMR
4 picture = Bottom of Starter

At this point, I have yet to set the power to the saw. Please look at the annotated pictures and let me know of any possible errors. The blue or yellow zeros indicate no wire attached.

Thanks
Randy
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20201222-112526_Photos.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	125.5 KB
ID:	158924   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20201222-114610_Photos.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	155.7 KB
ID:	158925   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20201222-120036_Photos.jpg
Views:	40
Size:	161.1 KB
ID:	158926   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20201222-113239_Photos.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	162.4 KB
ID:	158927  
__________________
"There are three and only three ways to reform our Congressional legislation, familiarly called, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box" (Frederick Douglass)

Last edited by Randyjaco; 12-22-2020 at 02:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 12-24-2020, 12:29 AM
GWIZ's Avatar
GWIZ GWIZ is offline
SFT Historian
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 7,185
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randyjaco View Post
Ok, now for the homeless wires

Coming from the coolant pump are W1, U2, and V2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randyjaco View Post
Please look at the annotated pictures and let me know of any possible errors. The blue or yellow zeros indicate no wire attached.

3 picture = Coolant Motor Relay CMR

Thanks
Randy
really cant say anything with current information.

But
you mentioned W1, U2 and V2 from the coolant motor
I assume its a single phase motor.... why three wires?


post#32 picture#3

it shows you connected W2 and U2 (assuming from the pump motor) but you have a W1 as stated above, no W2.
__________________
*
*
The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment. ~Warren G. Bennis

Last edited by GWIZ; 12-24-2020 at 12:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12-24-2020, 11:02 AM
Randyjaco's Avatar
Randyjaco Randyjaco is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Friendswood, TX
Posts: 664
Default

Both motors are 3 phase
__________________
"There are three and only three ways to reform our Congressional legislation, familiarly called, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box" (Frederick Douglass)
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 12-25-2020, 11:49 AM
Randyjaco's Avatar
Randyjaco Randyjaco is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Friendswood, TX
Posts: 664
Default

Since we are doing the "Stay at Home" Christmas, I thought I would spend a little time on the Trajan. I figured that everything was connected as when I bought it, that it was worth putting a little juice to it. I switched everything to the off position and plugged it into my 3 phase power. Immediately the saw motor started rumbling but did not turn. (in the off position) Bummer, something is miswired. Now I have to figure out if things are miswired or if I have bad components.

I guess that I am lucky, none of the magic smoke came out
Merry Christmas everyone
__________________
"There are three and only three ways to reform our Congressional legislation, familiarly called, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box" (Frederick Douglass)
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 12-26-2020, 09:52 AM
Scotts's Avatar
Scotts Scotts is offline
Stuff, Just stuff
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Wichita Kansas
Posts: 5,349
Default

Hello Randy,

I would start by disconnecting both your motors at the bottom of the starter and test where your 3 phases voltages are.

Now when you turn on your 3 phase to power your machine your motors will not receive power and we can do some testing. You need to be aware you are testing with power and doing so at your own risk.

If I understand you correctly When you turned power on you could hear the motors grumbling but not turning with everything in the off position. This would indicate you have power going to the motor when you do not want this to happen.

When you turn on power to the machine, with all controls to off you will have power on top of the motor starter, at L1,L2,L3, the starter contacts should be open and not supplying power to the motor. When you turn the switch on to start the motor, the starter should close all 3 contacts to supply power to the motor. You will be able to hear the starter close with an audible click on an off with the start stop switch.

With the motors disconnected turn the power on and check your line voltages you should have power on the top of the starter at L1,L2,L3 and they should be close to the same voltage, check with your volt meter phase to phase and each phase to ground and let us know what you find. L1,L2,L3, make up the 3 phases of 3 phase power.

The next step is going to be, with power on and the control switch to off, you need to check for voltage at the bottom of the starter where the motor was connected. same tests as above. Disconnect the motors before you do these tests and keep the motor leads out of the way and not touching anything else.

This may be quite tedious and is necessary to have the best shot at keeping the magic smoke where it belongs.

Do you have other equipment you run with your phase converter?

Scott
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 12-26-2020, 11:16 AM
GWIZ's Avatar
GWIZ GWIZ is offline
SFT Historian
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 7,185
Default

Be Cautious! this may not be the same starter.

trying to map out the wires.

Best I can tell he is running a three phase Pump motor with a two pole relay.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	LR2K.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	80.5 KB
ID:	158956  
__________________
*
*
The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment. ~Warren G. Bennis

Last edited by GWIZ; 12-27-2020 at 04:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 12-26-2020, 12:34 PM
Scotts's Avatar
Scotts Scotts is offline
Stuff, Just stuff
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Wichita Kansas
Posts: 5,349
Default

Yep.

That is the reason to disconnect all the motors.

I am not sure yet what the orange box is plugged into that base is yet.

Scott


Sent from my iPhone using ShopFloorTalk mobile app
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 12-26-2020, 06:43 PM
Randyjaco's Avatar
Randyjaco Randyjaco is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Friendswood, TX
Posts: 664
Default

I played with it a bit today. Both motors are OK. The noise I heard from the blade motor was the motor trying to turn in the wrong direction. It can only go one way or the gears will bind. The pump motor is running, but it's not pumping. It may need priming as soon as I figure out the proper rotation.

I believe the problem is in the starter box. I removed the wiring for the motors and powered it up. I started flipping switches and I didn't hear anything clicking. I got out my VOM and I am not getting any low voltage (28 volts). I guess my next step is to remove all the electrics from the box and test everything separately. I guess that I am finally going to learn about starter wiring from the ground up

Thanks for the responses.
__________________
"There are three and only three ways to reform our Congressional legislation, familiarly called, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box" (Frederick Douglass)
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 12-27-2020, 06:49 PM
Randyjaco's Avatar
Randyjaco Randyjaco is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Friendswood, TX
Posts: 664
Default

Well, I just safely returned from the bowels of the Land of Magic Blue Smoke
The first thing I did was remove all of the components from the starter box.
I then made a bunch of jumper wires.
The transformer does produce @25v.
With the help of G's diagram, I explored the starter. It seems to work too. I put 24v to 7 at A1 and #3 at 95NC and things started clicking. With the power on I got continuity from (1) L1 to #2 then from (3) L2 to #4 and then from (5) L3 to #6.
So, what does wire 2 at 13NO do?

The PMC seems to work too. I connected 24v to A1 and Com to clicking sounds.
With power on I got continuity from #24 to L3 and from #14 and L1. So, what is up with L2? Why isn't it also connected to the PMC? No space for an L2?

Thanks again for the help guys.
__________________
"There are three and only three ways to reform our Congressional legislation, familiarly called, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box" (Frederick Douglass)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Web Search:

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.