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Old 11-20-2005, 07:52 PM
Bond-o Bond-o is offline
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Location: The Mouth of the Chaumont River, Chaumont Bay, Ny.
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Default Bond-o's Wood Boiler,............

It seems that I logged on here at SFT,+ My boiler is taking over KoO's Wood boiler thread,........

So,.......... I'll start My Own,...... Rather than continuing to Hy-Jack KoO's........
I'm going to C&P abunch of the posts pertinent to My boiler,...... leaving out KoO's stuff.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond-o
Hi Guys,.......

I'm New here,..... My Very 1st Post.......

I Don't know how much I can Help you with the Stove you propose,.....
But,... It does somewhat resemble the Project that I'm currently working on...... I started this project Several Years ago, for a Friend......He petered out of it,+ it's been sitting......
Well with the Price of Oil,..... I've decided it's My project boiler for My House.............

I'm using a large water softener tank as the outer tank,+ a large propane tank for a firebox,.....
It's going to be a low pressure(12lb.) system,.... I'm actually going to tap it Directly into my oil boiler in the basement......Common Water....




The Inner tank sits down near, but not on the outer tank,... more water on top,.. More Heat,.???



Across the top of the firebox you can see the heat exchanger,... It's 80' of 2X4X1/4" Box Tubing,....Each piece is alternated either on edge, or flat,.... This should work to slow the heat, as it has to go to the front, or back of the firebox to excape the Smokepipe......

It's designed to be fed with 4' wood,...... Diameter,.. I Think will be more dependant on the Weight of the wood,....10"X4' should be Reasonable for Me.......
With any Luck,... I'm Hopeing that it'll only need to be fed Once a day.........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond-o
Hello Again Guys,..... And Gals,.............

I set up My profile alittle Better,... I'll post More,.. later....

Just to get a Jump on the Question,....... Chaumont(Sha-mo) is a small village on the Northeast shore of Lake Ontario,.... In Jefferson County,..... The Big Town in the area is Watertown,.... Location of Fort Drum, home to the 10th Mountain Div. of the U.S. Army,...... It gets into the News occasionally with the War going on........
And,... Even though I'm New here at this forum,.. I'm Not all that new to Forums in general,.... I'm a Regular over at iboats.com's forums,.... Mostly in the Engines/Outdrive forums.... After All,.... I'm a Mechanic,+ have been for Many Years in 1 form or another..........

To Catch Up,........

speedphreak,..... Is it My pictures,...???... Or Your Computer,..??.....
The Cross Tubes are Quite Visable in the 2nd photo.........
I Agree,.. The cross tubes were built in well before the Firebox was loaded into the Water Tank,+ were Pressure Tested to 100psi. Before the door was cut in........
Yes,.. It's a Horizonal boiler,.... the tubes tilt to 1 side to take advantage of Convection currents........
I've studied Every Outdoor Wood Boiler I've come across in the last few years for Ideas,(might have been looking at 1 of Yours).... The Biggest Difference between Mine,+ what I've seen is that I'm going with a low pressure system,(12psi, same as the current home heating system)... Rather than an Open, No pressure system......... As I stated above,.. When Done, It'll be Common with the oil boiler that's in the house Now,.... Common Water,.. Just a 24/7 circulation of the Common Water, from 1 boiler to the other.... The Oil Burner will be set up to come On at a temp slightly under the temp that the Wood Boiler Fires itself Up.......

King of Obsolete,... The Tanks I'm working with are/were Pressure Tanks, hence the Convexed ends,... I'll be using the pieces that I cut Out of the outer tank to close it in around the firebox Door....
If you're using Flat ended tanks,.... You'll Have to build a Gravity System,.. Not Pressurized Sealed system.... You'll need an Open Port in the Top of the outer tank to add more water from time to time.....(Evaporation) And,.. Of Course,... The Top of your Water tank Has to be the Highest Point of your system,.....
For Radiation,... It Looks like You might have a Beautiful piece laying around the back 40,.......
A couple of years ago,.. A Bud had a "Store Bought" Wood Boiler installed at his house,... Complete gravity fed system to a heatexchanger mounted to the Oil Hot Air Furnace in his cellar,.........
Well,..... In order to Heat his Shop,.... the old woodstove looked Obsolete,... He came over,+ We cut the Front 18" Off an old rusted out R model Mack,.... 1 of the 1s with the Butterfly Hood,.... Complete with the Radiator,.. Headlights,.. Fenders,..And Hood..........
I threw together a frame to hold all the pieces in place,+ a bracket for the Bumper,.... Then we stood it against the wall,+ mounted a 20" Box Fan(Ayuh, the Throw-Away kind) behind it,............
When he brought the Shop up to 70*,..... The Outdoor Wood Boiler was running at a Thunderous Roar,....... And the Wife,+ kids were Freezing in the House,.................
He downsized to a small Chevy car radiator,+ things have balanced out,...... He keeps a Comfortable 68* in his Repair Shop............

cutter,.....

Thanks Man,....................
I'm just looking for a forums that moves along,.... So many just don't get the post counts,......
This 1 seems to be Real Lively,............
As I said,.... I'm a Boat Guy 1st,....... But I like to Weld things for All of My Water Activities...................If Anybody has Any kind of Boating Questions,..... Come on over to iboats.com forums,..... It's like this place,........
Warm,.. Friendly,.... Action,... And, I'm Sure Many Personalities.............
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond-o
I Wish I could find My notes,...... I had it all Figured Out when I started this project a few years ago........
My Memory serves Me,.. Terribly,.. But it seems that it'll be around 150/200 gallons In the Boiler......
When up,+ running it'll be on a 24/7/365 cycling with the Boiler in the house, which I draw My heating from,+ My domestic hot water..........

Draft Control will be tended by a Stack Switch mounted in the Boiler,......
The Actual draft plate will be controled by an electric actuator that was for the shutters on a big commercial venting system......
An electric Fan will actuate After the draft plate opens,.......
And, As I said before,... There'll be a small Taco pump mounted on the oil boiler in the cellar that keeps moving the water between the 2 of them..........

Weather up here on the East end of the Lakes is Plenty Cold,....... A Week or a few at Well Below 0* is usually an Every year thing......
-40* Below is Not unheard of........

I can't help ya with the Coal thing,........ Ain't none of That around Here.........


Well,......... I'm been Bondo since juinor high school in Real Life,+ Bondo on the computer since Christmas 1999................

I Hate it when Somebody Else Steals My name......................


I understand,.............. If I get to posting So Much that I need an avatar to find My posts,.......... I'll ask you then,......
Again,... Thanks for the Warm Welcome..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedphreak
WE make a stove that seems roughly the size that you are working on and I think 250 gallons is about right . I will check that out for you. I agrre with what Bondo is saying about the draft control. He seems to be describing pretty much exactly what we got. Only thing is we have three draft inducers on our stove . One in the door and two in the back. I am not sure a bout CFM on the fans but I will check that out as well. I do know that the one in the door is bigger than the ones in back.
How big chimney are you planning to use? We tried eight inch Dia. and it seemed to bring down efficiency and create smoke. Ten inch worked lots better on a stove that size.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond-o
Eeeyyyyeeewwww,... Boyyyy............ Not what I was looking to See,.......
Just finished This Up,............ All sewn Up,..... Inside,+ Out.........
Ayuh,........... 8"...........




(that's the Top of the heatexchange tubes in the middle)

Would a Bigger Smokepipe be Any Advantage it if starts just Outside the boiler jacket,... In other words,... Anywhere along the 8" pipe Already stitched up..????......
I was Thinking that I'm going to want a Taller than Normal smokepipe Anyway,..???....
Would a Real Tall 8" be Better/ Worse than a Tall 10/12" pipe that Starts a few inches above the welds I've just lain in there,..????......


I'd be Very Interested in Any Info you have in This Area,........ I Guess it will have a Direct relationship to the Small 8" smokepipe,.......
I Don't have any fans picked out Yet,.... Other than 120V.......

Something Else I've been toying with is cutting in a pc. of 6" pipe into the Rear of the firebox,....... Then I could mount an old Oil Burner thru it,.... For Whatever Reason,..??....
That pipe could double as a rear Draft,........

It's Not Toooo Late just Yet...............
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedphreak
Methinks that the reason we had issues with the eight inch chimney is because we had so much air being blown into the firebox. I think I posted earlier that we have three fans on our stove that size so we were getting over 800 CFM blasting through it. because the fans that we use arent high pressure we got a buildup of carbon dioxide and uther such stuff happening and it restricted the fire. Mucho smoke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedphreak
I have been taking a closer look at your pics there and I think your stove is a lot smaller than I origionally thought. what is the Diameter of your firebox? the model that I have been using as a basis for comparison is about 55 inch dia. On the next smaller model wit a 48 inch firebox we are using an eight inch chimney with no problems. Very successfuly actually.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgott
This might mean nothing on a boiler but, for coal forges, all of the research I've done points to having at least a 10" flue pipe. I've read that 12" is better. You want plenty of hot air rising to pull the smoke up and out and I guess it takes 10" to get enough velocity to work right. I used 10" on my forge and you wouldn't believe the updraft. If I had a better designed hood I would have no smoke whatsoever in the carport, as it is I get a little wisp off to one side. The hot setup is a side draft hood, a 10" flue will pull the smoke sideways off of the forge. On the sidedraft a lot of times you have to start with a burning newspaper in the hood to get enough heat rising to start the draft. I've also read that you want to have your pipe at least 4' over the top of the highest part of your roof. Mine is probably 4' over the lowest part of the shed roof, I've never had a backdraft in a breeze.
There,.......... That brings My Boiler Project up to date,...........

I went out,+ got some #s to throw out here,..... I Still haven't Stumbled over My notes on this project,...........
But,...... I Have found some Missing pc.s...........

The Firebox is 70"s deep,+ 36"s diameter.......Inside.......Door is 24"s sq......

The Tank is 75"s Long,+ 42"s diameter,....... Outside........

The Minimun Diameter of the Hole exiting into the 8" Smokepipe is 7"s.......
Is that Hole called the Flue,..???.......

Will a Larger Smokepipe Help,..???.. Even with the 7" exit hole,..???...

I'm planning on a Smokepipe with At Least a 16' Overall Height,.... the boiler is 6',+ a 10' Smokepipe,...???.........

Who's the Mathamagician Here,..???....... How much Water is it going to Hold,.........
I Think my earlier estimate of 250gal. is Way High,...???........

1 last Question,....
For Blower Sizing,..???.... How Much Air can be Blown Thru a 7" Hole,...??????....... Anybody,...???...
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Last edited by Bond-o; 11-25-2005 at 10:49 AM.
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  #2  
Old 11-20-2005, 09:44 PM
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midmosandblasting midmosandblasting is offline
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Default Gallon

Ok check my math.I get 341.98 gallon .Big sq" -small sq " X70 " + the extra 5" at the large diameter /231 Cubic " per gallon .
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Old 11-21-2005, 12:53 AM
david_r david_r is offline
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Quote:
The Firebox is 70"s deep,+ 36"s diameter.......Inside.......Door is 24"s sq......
The Tank is 75"s Long,+ 42"s diameter,....... Outside........
the heat exchanger,... It's 80' of 2X4X1/4" Box Tubing
Are those IDs on the tanks?

Firbox 18*18*3.14*70=71215
Water tank 21*21*3.14*75=103856
Heat exchanger 1.5*3.5*80*12=5040

I get 163 gallons. It'll be a little more because of the curved ends on your firebox.
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Old 11-22-2005, 12:46 PM
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where do you plan to put your inlet and outlet for water?
The way we do it is we have the inlet near the top and the outlet about in the middle. They are both in the rear of the unit but the inlet is a piece of pipe that goes into the stove to within a foot of the front so that you get better flow inside the water jacket. The outlet is just a weldable flange fitting. I believe they are both two inch dia.
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Old 11-22-2005, 08:33 PM
Bond-o Bond-o is offline
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Quote:
Are those IDs on the tanks?
Ayuh,....... ID on the Tanks,+ OD on the Box Tubing...........
Quote:
where do you plan to put your inlet and outlet for water?
Water from the House is being Pushed in the top, near the back of the boiler,....Up there I have 3,1" couplings,+ 2 more on the top in the front,... There's Also a 3" pipe threaded port in the back, that was Already in the tank..... That'll be My Filling Port to introduce the Anti-Freeze...........

The Hot Water back to the house comes out the Bottom,... About as far forward as the Smokepipe is Rearward from center......
There's 2, 2" pipe couplings welded in there..... I'm thinking, 2" Valve,.. to a "T", continuing down to a 2"X8" nipple,+ a Cap on the end for sediment.... The other side of the "T" will go to 1" pipe Valve,+ on to the 1" Hyd. Hose I picked up.........
I'll companion the fittings, minus the Hose on the 2nd 1....
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Old 11-22-2005, 11:22 PM
bgott bgott is offline
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Main Entry: flue
Pronunciation: 'fl├╝
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
: an enclosed passageway for directing a current: as a : a channel in a chimney for conveying flame and smoke to the outer air b : a pipe for conveying flame and hot gases around or through water in a steam boiler c : an air channel leading to the lip of a wind instrument d : FLUE PIPE
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Old 11-22-2005, 11:59 PM
bgott bgott is offline
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http://hearth.com/what/chimneysize.html
http://hearth.com/what/chimney.html

I've just spent some time on Google trying to find out how to calculate the flue size for a boiler. I'm sure there is a formula for a fan blown firebox compared to a naturally aspirated firebox. I haven't found it. The site above has a little information on fireplace and stove sizing and doesn't seem to offer much help on what we are discussing. It does have a pipe size chart that might be helpful. From what I've read, if your chimney is too small it won't pull enough air in to support complete combustion. If it's too big it will let the smoke cool which will let the creosote condense onto the inside of the flue and will slow your smoke velocity which will also affect your draft. They don't mention a damper, which we had on every wood burning stove we had when I was a kid. I don't think you would want a damper on a forced air firebox. They went to forced air furnaces and boilers to overcome the shortcomings of natural ventilation and I'm sure that, somewhere, there is a formula using the CFM of the fans, BTUs of the fuel, firebox size and probably some other esoteric variables thrown in just to really complicate the issue. With that said, and keeping in mind my really limited flue design experience, I'd run a 10 " or a 12" stack.
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Old 11-25-2005, 10:44 AM
Bond-o Bond-o is offline
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I came back here Yesterday,+ Clicked on the link you posted.............Thanks bgott......

Going from your links,..... I surfed Well Into the Night,.....
Even though I Still haven't found out How many CFMs I can push thru the 7" Hole in the top of the boiler,........
I Did learn an Awful Lot,....... And,... It brought up Lots More Questions than Answers.......

I'm Still proceeding with "Plan A",........ But,... Somehow,... I ended up at a forum from Northeastern Penn....And,.. It's got me thinking of going to a Coal fired boiler,.. Instead of Wood,..??.....
I'm about 150/200 miles from the Coal fields of NEPa.,+ have tandem Dumptrucks at my disposal, for the price of the Fuel,+ a Driver's wage.......
Hmmmmmmm,..........
'Course,.... I also Live in an area that the Absolute Best Hardwood fuels Grow,..???......
And,.. A Complete Redesign of the firebox would be Necessary to burn Coal,..???......

Anyway,..............

For "Plan A",....... The Question at This Point is;....

How many CFM should my Forced Induction Draft Blower be,..????.....

I studied the situation yesterday,....... I'm limited by the 7" hole in the top of the firebox, into the 8" pipe welded Into the unit Now,.... I'm Not going to Cut-Out that 1,+ Reinstall a Bigger 1,.......
Tooo Much work(and Rod,+ Electricity) to Go Back........
I'm Hoping that being Forced Induction,...... It'll Work.........

Midmo,..... If I could check Your Math,..... I Wouldn't be Needing a Mathamagician............. I Do think your #s Are High.........

David,...... I Think I remember Your #s being Very Close to what we came up with before I even started cutting the tanks,.......
Combined with the capacity of the Oil boiler that it'll be Continuously Cycled with,....... I Think it'll work........

All Comments Truly Appreicated..................................
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Old 11-25-2005, 11:32 AM
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midmosandblasting midmosandblasting is offline
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I hae to agree with the 163 .When I went back and checked somehow I read the 42 as 48 and went from there .
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Old 11-25-2005, 01:06 PM
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"How many CFM should my Forced Induction Draft Blower be,..????.."



Bond-o I'm out of my league here and might sound like a complete idiot but couldn't you just put a rheostat on a blowers motor and play with the speed.
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