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  #11  
Old 05-12-2009, 03:18 PM
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Dan I am planning to pipe in my shop in the near future and had already decided to go 3/4" through the whole shop granted my HVAC background helps me to know that going to small is not a good idea .


Rick
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  #12  
Old 05-12-2009, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moe1942 View Post
Now Dan you know this isn't a fun thread til someone mentions PVC....:evil

Carry on Dan..
Now whats wrong with PVC, I find a shop run with PVC for the air system to be a way to add excitement to your day.
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  #13  
Old 05-12-2009, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry lingle View Post
There are some neat tricks that I use when doing an air distribution system.
First where possible I run a ring around the perimiter which has the same effect as using a larger pipe size because the air comes to each drop via both pipes.
Second I like to add a second air reciever in the middle of the loop ( the point furthest from the compressor). As long as it is set up to be self draining it is an install and forget thing. It adds no moisture to the system but again makes air delivery to the drops much better. I generaly match the size of the main reciever where possible.
Third I make it a point to get the air as dry as possible before it gets to the storage /distribution part of the system.
That is a great Idea on the circle, i have never heard that one.

On a single straight line run it is better to double the size of the fitting coming from the tank. This allows water to run back towards the tank which makes it easier to drain in addition to maximizing air flow. Of course if you are not worried about maximizing air flow then this is unnecessary.


Great Information Dan!
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  #14  
Old 05-12-2009, 08:35 PM
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Thanks for this thread Dan.
Copper sure sounds like the way to go... no internal rusting, fairly easy to install, safe, less friction loss at fittings than black pipe.
What are the downsides?
Garett
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Last edited by Floptop; 05-12-2009 at 08:36 PM. Reason: punctuation
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  #15  
Old 05-13-2009, 01:56 AM
ace4059 ace4059 is offline
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Originally Posted by Floptop View Post
Thanks for this thread Dan.
Copper sure sounds like the way to go... no internal rusting, fairly easy to install, safe, less friction loss at fittings than black pipe.
What are the downsides?
Garett
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  #16  
Old 05-13-2009, 09:51 AM
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Lu47Dan Lu47Dan is offline
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Smile A few answers and comments

Ace , price isn't always the determining factor when selecting air piping , for someone doing there own piping in there own shop . If you have all the cutting and threading tools to do black iron pipe , then it can be the cheapest way to go . But if you have to buy the tools for black iron pipe than copper is more economical .
Garett , coppers first downside is price but that is relative as I pointed out to Ace . the second downside to copper is the learning curve to sweating joints , expect to have a couple of leaks while learning that . Thirdly sweated joints can fail quicker then a B.I.P. joint , but any joint can fail over time .
Jim , A loop or circle system has definite advantages over a straight system , I do increase the size of the main to 1" out of the tank fitting to remove resistance to flow and run the larger pipe until the system splits , then I drop down to 3/4" for the loop's main
Rick , I figured you would run copper because of your background in HVAC work .
Alan , fittings come in some strange profiles but when you see what they can do for you , you thank the people who developed them over the years .

A few of comments about working with copper that will help to clarify things .
Copper is about half as labor intensive as black iron pipe to install , requires lighter methods of hanging , and has the advantage of being non-ferrous so no rust .
Future addition of drops can be done with relative ease when compared to black iron pipe .
If you make a mistake when you cut a length of copper , it can be trimmed if it is slightly too long . With B.I.P. once threads are cut on both ends shortening it a 1/4" can be a big problem . I have had mixed results when shortening and rethreading . Too short can be solved by cutting the pipe back 12" then adding a coupling and a piece 14" then cutting to correct length , with either material .
I will get into cutting , hanging and sweating joints after I finish the fitting terminology part of this thread .
Dan
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  #17  
Old 05-14-2009, 10:21 AM
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Lu47Dan Lu47Dan is offline
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Default Fitting Terminology , Tee's and related fittings

Tee's
Tee's come in two distinct types , "regular" tee's that have the same nominal size on all three legs , and reducing tee , where one or more legs have a different nominal size .
Tee's read out as C X C X C , I have never run across a tee with an "F" leg , not to say they don't make them I just can not find an example of one .
Tee's
Tee's are used to split "branches" off a main line , or to split a single main line into two mains .
Reducing Tee's
Reducing tee's are used to split or join one or more smaller lines , these can have one or two smaller nominal sized bells for this purpose . Reducing tee's serve the purpose of eliminating reducing bushing or reducing coupling thus reducing the number of sweated joints in the system and reducing the likelihood of future leaks .
The bells are set at 0* X 180* X 90* , this might sound confusing but this is how tee's are read off .
Say you need a tee to get a 1/2" branch line off of a 3/4" main line , it would read off as
3/4" X 3/4" X 1/2"
0* X 180* X 90*
Tee's are read off as 0* - 180* straight through then the 90* leg if that makes sense to you . See image one if you are still confused
The combination of sizes on the separate legs can get mind boggling at times . There are fittings available that allow you to split a 1" main into two 3/4" mains with just one fitting . That fitting would read out as
3/4" X 3/4" X 1"
0* X 180* X 90*
The 1" bell would be out the side or bullheaded .
Now you can get another fitting that would read out as
1" X 3/4" X 3/4"
0* X 180* X 90*
This fitting would be 1" in to 3/4" out straight through and another 3/4" bell on the side or bullheaded .
Another example would allow you to split a 1' line into a 3/4" line and a 1/2" line two different ways , it reads out as
1" X 1/2" X 3/4" or 1" X 3/4" X 1/2"
0* X 180* X 90* 0* X 180* X 90*
Wye's , Crosses and Unique Tee's
Wyes are what they sound like , they are shaped like the letter "Y" except one of the top bars is in line with the leg of the "Y" . They are usually a cast copper fitting . They have their uses in piping but I have yet to find the need for one in a compressed air system .
Crosses on the other hand do find there way into use once and awhile , but I try to avoid them If I can .
Unique Tee's are a cast copper fitting that has a threaded outlet in the 90* position .
  1. Tee
  2. Reducing tee
  3. Cross
  4. Unique Tee
More tomorrow . Dan
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  #18  
Old 05-16-2009, 08:36 AM
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Dan, don't forget to finish. I want to know why I have too many leaks.
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  #19  
Old 05-16-2009, 12:40 PM
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Lu47Dan Lu47Dan is offline
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Default Leaks .

Jim , have been too busy to get to posting more in this thread , maybe later on today .
Leaks can be frustrating but they are part of learning , I still have one every other decade or so .
As for leaks in a sweated joint , the biggest culprit is improper cleaning of the joint , overheating is another one .
Joints must be clean and shiny but not polished . A plumbers roll of sandcloth is a good investment , it can be used for other things also so it would not go to waste . Polishing the tubing joint with too fine a grade of sandcloth , does not leave a good "tooth" on the surface , "tooth" is a slang term referring to surface roughness in paint and body work .
The type of flux also has some bearing on solder flow into the joint . A good tinning flux is what you want to use when installing air lines , that is what I use most of the time . Regular flux works well but does have more leaks in the systems then the tinning flux .
Too much flux can make a mess , but it is better than too little flux , you will learn when you have enough on the joint .
Flux both joints , the tubing and the fitting . The flux on the tube should extend a little beyond the bell of the fitting . If you happen to remove the fitting from the joint re-flux both pieces .
Different solders , made by different companies can have different flow characteristics . A harder solder will flow different then a softer one . When soldering joints you want a drop to form and drip off , that signals that the joint is full . Quit adding solder and wipe the joint just for look's
Hairs from the flux brush are also leak makers , wipe clean your flux brush every once in awhile on a white cotton rag and check for loose hairs still in the brush and lost ones on the rag . Cheapo flux brushes can breakdown quickly when compared to good ones .
But in the end soldering is an art that takes practice and patience to master , I know welders in my local that can weld anything from the hubs of hell to the crack of dawn , but I would not want them soldering on any job that I would run . We call them sprinkler fitters :evil: , cause they have so many leaks , but If I wanted a nuke quality weld they would be at the top of the list .
Dan
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  #20  
Old 05-16-2009, 07:28 PM
kbs2244 kbs2244 is offline
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Default Air Piping

This is how the pros suggest it to be done.

http://www.tptools.com/StaticText/ai...ng-diagram.pdf

BTW, I have good luck just using epoxy on copper pipe joining.
Haven’t had any leaks yet.
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