no experience/tools. what to use for very small brazing job

[Dr Page]

Upon review links posted by GWIZ: This HTS 2000 looks promising. No flux required, melts ~500 F less than aluminum. Looks like it can be purchased from official website for under 100$/lb if ordered online. Well within cost parameters.

[LKeithR]

Originally Posted by Dr Page

..so I don't need any lip from any Safety Sally.

People who start with an attitude are less likely to get help and advice here. Play nice and you'll find that there are lots of very helpful and knowledgeable people on the site.

I'm not a gun person but given what you're trying to do I'd be considering silver solder. Might be the solution to your problem...

[Dr Page]

I came off as a bit of a smartass and it was uncalled for,I only wish to head off any condescending people who felt a need to tell me what I can or can't do with my own firearms, because frankly I'm sick of people thinking they can dictate what others do. OH YEAH, IT HAPPENS. A lot. It's an attitude that I'm fed up with and seems especially prevalent in the firearms world. It was not intended to offend any legitimate party in general.

I've considered silver solder, though not really researched it much since the original was done successfully through brazing. But it appears to be a cheaper method on the whole (?)

PS: Your signature, my dad would always say that to me, still does. But when the projects ran long into afternoon heat, my mom would say "damn it, it's just a ____. it doesn't have to be perfect."

[H80N]

Have it TIG welded...

it is just better all the way around.. aluminum braze is a BAD option for this

Strip it down to bare frame.. and

Pay a competent local welder with TIG skills to graft that teat onto the frame.. and it will be there forever.. come hell or high water
it will become part of the frame... not stuck onto it..

Braze it... and someday somebody will drop that gun and break off that teat...repairs will be very difficult because of the zinc content likely in the aluminum braze...

Why not have it done right the first time?? it is a well built weapon... treat it with the respect it deserves??

I have gone back and repaired more of those failed bubblegum aluminum brazing jobs than I could count... and always marvel at the abuse of good metal... why trash a nice sidearm??

what is the fixation on brazing it...??

you could always do it with JB Weld and a rat tailed file...

as you said... nobody will tell you what to do.......

[Dr Page]

As far as gun safety nobody will tell me what to do.

That says nothing of my purpose for being here! I'm open to all suggestions on how to complete my project!

I would LOVE, ABSOLUTELY LOVE to pay to have this done. But nobody will touch a firearm (in this way). I've been working on this project for nearly two years. I've called dozens of machinists, smiths, everyone. Nobody will touch it. Most don't even return my calls or my emails, not even so much as a "get lost nerd" A couple have responded, and most of those said NO. (Alot of people think that because they clean antique firearms that they are gunsmiths, o' contrare)

One man did agree to do the work for me. His name is Todd, at Customized Creations. They do lots of custom gunsmithing, but for even them this is pretty...custom. He told me he could do probably do it, but it would take (gasp) up a year to complete. For me to do this myself, not counting the practice runs, maybe one afternoon?

Believe me if I had any other option than to buy a bunch of tools I'll never use again, I would have done it by now. This is one of those projects that started as a "you know it would be neat if -" and has become an obsession that has to be completed. It wasn't just this part either, that gun in the photo has had tons of work done to it by many good people. It's been quite a process.

PS: As far as I'm concerned, in any project you're doing - if the piece can be bought in the store or online already made, then it ain't custom. Therefore everyone who claims they do "custom work" is full of it.

[H80N]

Find a competent TIG welder.. (the process used to be called "HeliARC")

bring him the bare frame

and explain your needs..

your teat and the area to be welded will no longer be 6061 T6... it will become 0-T where heated.. at the HAZ (heat affected zone)

if you can find a SKILLED welder with a modern inverter TIG like a Miller Dynasty.. they can narrow that HAZ and perform the joining with much more precision..

You might ask at your local welding supply who is really good at precision aluminum welding..

[H80N]

BTW... do not fool yourself... this is not just cosmetic..

Whether braze or weld... you will be affecting the temper and metallurgy of the frame..

Do not dismiss input as being the squawk of some "Safety Sally"

This board has a number of competent, experienced people… who’s knowledge of metalworking could be drawn upon..

We have machinists, welders, gunsmiths.. clockmakers, chemists, engineers .. even an MD or two

As you said.. you have no experience or tools in this area…

Rather than coming in here expecting affirmation of a decision you seem to have premade

Why not listen to possible ways to accomplish the task? And the pros and cons of the available avenues??

Seems rather illogical to narrow your focus down to the best way to execute a bad option..

And to start out with a helluva chip on your shoulder from the getgo…

[dubby]

Y'all are making this too hard. Cut off the old tail. Tap a hole for a stud in the frame, cut new piece and screw it on there in place. File and finish to fit. Use loctite.


As far as the anodizing on the frame, if it is anodized anything you do to the material will harm it. If it's just blackened aluminum, then it's just a chemical dirtying-up and the metal is already degraded on the surface. In either case, brazing or welding, it's my understanding that you'll need to get it all back down to bare metal in the working area anyway before you can expect much success.

[GWIZ]

Originally Posted by Dr Page

I still don't see why everyone thinks this is so crazy. It's not like I'm going to take a torch to a loaded firearm, cocked and locked! A firearm, especially a disassembled frame with no mechanism attached, cannot go off or explode. And if the frame is damaged during the process, I'm not dumb enough to try to shoot it afterwards. It just won't happen. A metal frame is just a metal frame. No different than heating any other metal. No risk.

Honestly I'm more worried about burning my hand, or blowing up my garage working with brazing torches than I am about hurting myself on my own gun.

You are not seeing the big picture.

Without setting it up on a surface plate and measuring all the dimensions you are not likely going to tell if you warped the frame.
you have no way of knowing if you changed the integrity of the material.

The Safety issue is not as much while you are doing the job, unless you burn down the house, its when you fire the gun it may come-up with feed problems, the frame may eventually develop stress cracks.

At some time the gun may blowup in your hand or a miss feed and blowup in your face.
If the back of the frame comes a-part its going to sort of backfire and if you are lucky just blow your hand off.

In machining if its a critical part, after any welding the part is sent in for heat treating, cold stablizing.....etc... then finished up with machining to specifications.

Sometimes that is done regardless if any welding has been done.

[USMCPOP]

If you got a skilled TIG welder to do it, that person would have to be a licensed gunsmith. A license is needed to engrave, customize, refinish, or repair a firearm (for $), and the frame is the firearm.

However, according to the article here http://gunsforsale.com/manufacturer/beretta-firearms "...The Beretta M9 is a semi-automatic pistol chambered in 9x19mm NATO. The frame is forged 7075-T6 aluminum, with type III hard anodizing ..." 7075 is largely considered unweldable by conventional means. There's also the issue of the T6 heat treatment. Most any welding/brazing process is going to affect the temper of the rearmost slide guides of the frame.