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Old 08-22-2005, 12:30 AM
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Exclamation Need help on vertical uphill stick welds

Howdy y'all....I am in need fer some advice and tips on making vertical up welds with stick. I do it all day long at work with a stinkin MIG but I'm havein problems with stick. My boss is gonna be givin me a vertical up test soon and I'm not happy with my results so far. Test will be on 1/4 and 1/2 inch plate, beveled of course and he is giving me the choice of using a backing strip or not. The test is not anything offical...its just to evaluate my progress fer gettin my certs later...but I still want to do my best. Problem is that I only have a Lincoln AC machine at home to practice on but have a Miller engine drive at the shop. I'm use to A/C but I think the Eng Drive would be better fer the test.

First- Which rod is best fer the root pass (maybe something that could be used on both my A/C welder and the Eng Drive)6010/6011/5p/ or 5p+??

Second- What would be the best rod to use fer the hot pass and then the fill and cap..7013??

Third-What size rod 3/32 or larger and amp setting (I know that the amps go down as you progress thru the root, hot pass, fill,etc)

Fourth- Here is where I have the most problems--How do y'all suggest that I run the bead...whip and pause, figure 8's, weave, straight stingers(fer root pass), zig-zag??? I've tried all of them and have the best luck with fast whip and pause. Is this right or am I totally off track here??

I would really appreciate any input you guys have....due to my work schedule I can only get in about 6-8 hours of practice a week and more at the shop when the workload permits. I just dont want to be wastin valuable practice time plowin thru every combination of rod/amp/technique...dont get me wrong I have learned alot using this method but theres a time to call on more experienced welders...and I'm calling now...lol. Just a warning...be prepared fer the same questions when I start tryin to nail overhead!

Thanks Guys ( and you gals too ), y'all take it easy,
Rod
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Last edited by NavyGuy; 08-22-2005 at 12:37 AM.
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Old 08-22-2005, 04:39 AM
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Turn the heat down until you can control the puddle with whatever motion you care to use
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Old 08-22-2005, 06:13 AM
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Hi Rod. In my opinion, the dream test is a plate test; thickness doesn’t matter, with a backing plate. The backing plate should at least be ¼, but 3/8-inch is better. No less than ¼-inch gap. I would run the root in two passes, with 3/32-inch 7018. First pass would go on the right side of the joint / gap (if your right handed, opposite if your left handed), covering little over half of the gap, second pass would tie the left hand plate, backing plate, and first weld all together. If you can lay these two beads in with no problems, your home free! All you have to do from this point on, is keep it clean, don’t over heat the plates, if it’s a bend test, x-ray, hotter the better, and avoid wagon tracks at all cost.

Far as choice of tests, with the questions, you are asking here I think I can guess the level your at, so avoid open root tests for now. If I ever had a choice, for an open root test, be it plate or pipe, I would run 6010 for the root. I just love 6011 for tacking; in my opinion 6011 has a little more ductility for tacking, but would rather run 6010 for anything else.

Far as practicing vertical up. I think 6010 or 6011 is harder than 7018. If your heat is correct, and you have the correct angle, 7018 will run it’s self up hill. Another trick for practicing vertical up is, the smaller the dia. of the rod (less metal to control) the easier to run. With 7018 vertical up, I run a small / short "U" shape motion, but as soon as it gets too hot, or if one plate is thicker than the other I switch to a "J" motion. So are you totally confused now?
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Old 08-22-2005, 06:21 AM
boilerman79 boilerman79 is offline
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If its an open root test use 6010 for the root ,1/8 inch rod works good. Then go to 3/32 7018 rods for the rest of the test.the smaller rods will give you more control.about 80 amps will work for the 7018s.may want to dial it down a little for the cover passes as metal will be hot already. the 6010 amp setting really depends on how you have your coupon set up, small root opening more heat needed,large root opening less heat,try to have about a 3/32 root opening,with a small land on the bevel,80 to 85 amps should work ok with this.practice on the exact coupon you will be tested on,6011 on a.c will do the trick for the root.If it is a backing plate test ,use 7018s all the way.there is a 7018 a.c. rod you can use on your a.c. buzzbox,good luck on your test.

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Old 08-22-2005, 06:28 AM
david_r david_r is offline
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Rod,
You can run 7018 on an AC welder. I don't think I'd practice with 7018AC then test with something different. The AC rod doesn't run the same.
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Old 08-22-2005, 08:01 AM
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There was a very good discussion on this some time ago. Hopefully this link will work.

http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/...=7018+vertical
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Old 08-22-2005, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pile Buck
.....and avoid wagon tracks at all cost.
Thanks Carl, b_footn, boilerman79, David_r and Stickman fer yer advice...I'm begining to see where I went wrong. So Carl (or anybody) how do you avoid wagon tracks?....more heat? Also the last plate test I took was with MIG and I beveled it to about 45 degrees...is that too much bevel cause it took me 10 passes to fill the damn thing and why should I set the root gap at such a large opening? I was thinking that the smaller would be better so I could get 100 % penetration.
Here are some pics of the MIG test plate I did awhile back...tear it apart fellas and tell me what I did wrong....and yes I know the cap profile is WAY off..I just couldnt stop layin beads...lol. No acid has been applied so I don't know how much info you can get from the pics....and btw this was a flat test...not vertical, But I'm sure you guys would have picked that out in a second

First pic is of the top of the plate.

Thanks again fer the advice guys...keep it comin!
Rod
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Old 08-22-2005, 08:43 AM
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MIG test plate pic #2. This is the cross section of the test coupon.
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Old 08-22-2005, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pile Buck
Far as choice of tests, with the questions, you are asking here I think I can guess the level your at, so avoid open root tests for now. ....So are you totally confused now?
Howdy Carl...thanks fer yer advice...I dont want to avoid open root pass in fact its what I'm planning on doing fer this test. I did the MIG test plate with an open root..even though i only had an 1/8 inch gap...lol. Is there a guide fer root openings verus plate thickness or is it just something ya get with experience? And I'm not TOTALLY confused yet.... In fact I was confusing myself trying all the possible combinations on my own...but hell..live and learn!!

Givin it hell
Rod
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Old 08-22-2005, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyGuy
and why should I set the root gap at such a large opening? I was thinking that the smaller would be better so I could get 100 % penetration.
Rod, read Carl's post again. He's saying to gap it wide like that (1/4") for 3/32" 7018 with a backing strip. If your gap is too narrow, with the thick coat of flux on 7018 you won't get in deep enough and it can leave voids that will cause your coupon to fail bend test. (Don't ask how I know this!) You are probably thinking of 6010 with an open root.

I'm won't pass off any amateur advice on how to do the welding. I'll learn along with you from the pro's. I'm just getting the knack of welding up and overhead with 7018 and I'm pretty excited about it!
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