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Old 01-29-2019, 02:07 PM
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Question What would be the right one for facing For the mill drill

Ok for the Rung Fu mill drill, what would the best type of cutter for facing
using a basic fly cutter...

Or if using a carbide facing tool which one would be better and put less stress
on the small mill drill a 4, 6 or 8 flute cutter
and if you were going to buy one of the mentioned in this from the banger-good website and which one would you buy from lowest to lets say middle of the road to chose from off the BG site...
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Old 01-29-2019, 03:20 PM
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When it comes to facing on a light, low power mill it's all about the geometry of the insert. You want something with a really positive edge. Probably the best insert right now for this application is an APKT or one of it's derivatives--they have a very positive approach angle. Biggest problem is that they're expensive to begin with and you only get two edges per insert--makes for an expensive combo. I have yet to find a really good combination...
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Old 01-29-2019, 03:27 PM
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If done right, each ‘flute’ should be taking the same depth of cut, regardless of the number of flutes.

So, in theory, an 8 flute cutter would be fed at four times the feed rate of a two flute cutter to maintain that same chip thickness.

One of the big killers for carbide is when it is underfed. The edge gets hot from rubbing instead of cutting.

For cheap facing, consider single point fly cutters, they use a tool ground similar to a lathe tool, and work pretty well, and resharpening the tool is easy and makes for cheap cutting.





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Old 01-29-2019, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywynd View Post
If done right, each ‘flute’ should be taking the same depth of cut, regardless of the number of flutes.

So, in theory, an 8 flute cutter would be fed at four times the feed rate of a two flute cutter to maintain that same chip thickness.

One of the big killers for carbide is when it is underfed. The edge gets hot from rubbing instead of cutting.

For cheap facing, consider single point fly cutters, they use a tool ground similar to a lathe tool, and work pretty well, and resharpening the tool is easy and makes for cheap cutting.





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So a basic set of fly cutters will be good enough I seen a set of three sizes for around 28is to 30ish
I just was not sure what to get being at beginners level here with this
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Old 01-29-2019, 07:03 PM
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I just got one of these. Have not used it yet, but looks very well made. Expect it will give a much smoother finish than a fly cutter.
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Old 01-29-2019, 08:50 PM
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Evidently, banggood doesn't know what a fly cutter is. I could not get their search utility to reveal one. They even said the search term "fly cutter not found".

Why don't you look at cdco?
Use the little search pane on the left of the page and type in 'fly cutter'.
Since they ship from Chicago instead of China you'll get your order a good bit faster and you'll be supporting Illinois gangsters and Chinese gangsters instead of just Chinese.

The ones I have are actually a 5 piece set of the exact style that I bought from Enco before they were cannibalized by MSC. The pricing is now drastically higher, like $161 for the same 5 piece set.

Now the bad thing about recommending cdco is I cannot copy/paste a link to the specific item because it doesn't show in the address bar of the catalog page. However, I did steal a picture of the 3 piece set, priced at $23.
I've used various cutting tools in it with pretty good results.

In fact, sometimes the results have been almost spectacular. Here is a link to page where I smoothed down an aluminum plate for Mildred's rotary table.
Some of Dave Lee's favorite pictures.
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Old 01-29-2019, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutter View Post
Evidently, banggood doesn't know what a fly cutter is. I could not get their search utility to reveal one. They even said the search term "fly cutter not found".

Why don't you look at cdco?
Use the little search pane on the left of the page and type in 'fly cutter'.
Since they ship from Chicago instead of China you'll get your order a good bit faster and you'll be supporting Illinois gangsters and Chinese gangsters instead of just Chinese.

The ones I have are actually a 5 piece set of the exact style that I bought from Enco before they were cannibalized by MSC. The pricing is now drastically higher, like $161 for the same 5 piece set.

Now the bad thing about recommending cdco is I cannot copy/paste a link to the specific item because it doesn't show in the address bar of the catalog page. However, I did steal a picture of the 3 piece set, priced at $23.
I've used various cutting tools in it with pretty good results.

In fact, sometimes the results have been almost spectacular. Here is a link to page where I smoothed down an aluminum plate for Mildred's rotary table.
Some of Dave Lee's favorite pictures.
I did see that set on CDCO I was just unsure what would be better and less stress on the mill drill there was another set of 3 on Amazon and both China Direct site I use but even China Direct is getting higher on price now and about the same and sometimes higher than CDCO I may just buy both the set and the carbide facing tool being eventually I will have my slabs poured to set my big mills on and get them to the shop but looking more of springtime than sooner as I like to have them here and set up...

I also would like to pick up a couple of there a buddy has one and they work great
https://blacktopdeals.com/products/h...iABEgLshvD_BwE
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Last edited by MetalWolf; 01-29-2019 at 11:06 PM.
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  #8  
Old 01-29-2019, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalWolf View Post
...So a basic set of fly cutters will be good enough...
Flycutters are great for surfacing; if you've got much material to remove you need a facemill or big end mills. The set you're looking at is probably the same as the ones in Cutter's picture. You really don't need the set, once you mount a cutter in the largest one there's no reason to use the smaller ones. I have some small 1/2" shank insert style toolholders that I use with mine--if your mill is properly trammed you can get a very nice finish. HSS works too but, as I have said before, it's a royal pain in the arse to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
I just got one of these. Have not used it yet, but looks very well made. Expect it will give a much smoother finish than a fly cutter.
That does look to be very well made. APMT inserts are members of the same family as the APKTs which I previously mentioned. The finish will be good but it won't be "better" than what you could get from a flycutter. A properly set up flycutter is capable of producing an extremely nice finish, especially on a wider part. With a small cutter like yours you will see the "lines" where the passes overlap if you're working a part that is more than 2" wide. Even if your mill is perfectly trammed you'll still see the overlap.

The advantage to your tool is that you can "dig in" a bit and remove some material; just don't get too aggressive with a light machine. Rigidity is the key to making any tool work in a mill; the heavier the machine the better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutter View Post
...and you'll be supporting Illinois gangsters and Chinese gangsters instead of just Chinese...
That's funny...

Quote:
...In fact, sometimes the results have been almost spectacular...
Yeah, a good flycutter can make even a mediocre machinist like me look good...
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  #9  
Old 01-30-2019, 02:32 AM
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I just got my face mill setup tonight. Had to mess with the holding bolt, and washer..Bored out the face mill holding area too.Just the wrong bolt setup for this cutter.. Works now though. Went with 8 tooth 4 inch cutter in 1.5 bore size. Went a bit bigger in bore size to support larger cutters down the road.. I also shortened one drive pin so my Mill will now support cat 40 arbors. Instead of NMTB 40 only. Just take a bushing out of the Arbor Draw bar and pulls the cat 40 in tight..My cutter takes the APMT 1604 etc also.. ebay can be your friend here..

Amazon on annular cutters smoking deal/ super quality brand, and the 2 inch carbide was like $20.00 Now over $200.00 bought 5 for different sizes for about $70.00 Four are 3 inch depth cutters.. $700.00 worth retail..Cuts nice like my Nitto Kohki carbide ones, both fit in the Mill in collets or a .750
end mill holder shortened Power Knee works well on feeding them....


https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-pcs-MITS...72.m2749.l2649

I did find a horizontal Draw bar, and new Bison NMTB 50 style B Horizontal arbor.. Figure I would just get some wide cutters, be good to go on facing the easy way..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Toolmex-7-0...53.m2749.l2649
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Last edited by Scott V; 01-30-2019 at 02:47 AM.
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  #10  
Old 01-30-2019, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott V View Post
I just got my face mill setup tonight. Had to mess with the holding bolt, and washer..Bored out the face mill holding area too.Just the wrong bolt setup for this cutter.. Works now though. Went with 8 tooth 4 inch cutter in 1.5 bore size. Went a bit bigger in bore size to support larger cutters down the road.. I also shortened one drive pin so my Mill will now support cat 40 arbors. Instead of NMTB 40 only. Just take a bushing out of the Arbor Draw bar and pulls the cat 40 in tight..My cutter takes the APMT 1604 etc also.. ebay can be your friend here..

Amazon on annular cutters smoking deal/ super quality brand, and the 2 inch carbide was like $20.00 Now over $200.00 bought 5 for different sizes for about $70.00 Four are 3 inch depth cutters.. $700.00 worth retail..Cuts nice like my Nitto Kohki carbide ones, both fit in the Mill in collets or a .750
end mill holder shortened Power Knee works well on feeding them....


https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-pcs-MITS...72.m2749.l2649

I did find a horizontal Draw bar, and new Bison NMTB 50 style B Horizontal arbor.. Figure I would just get some wide cutters, be good to go on facing the easy way..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Toolmex-7-0...53.m2749.l2649
A Cinci with a CAT 40 holder compared to wolfie's mill drill is like comparing a ocean freighter to a rubber dinghy!!

I ran a #5 Cincinnati vertical at one shop years ago, with a 50 taper, and a 6" facemill, it was crazy the material that it would take off. We only used it on occasion, so we never really got proficient at running it. watching the chips fly was fun though!
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