BLM AR500 targets

[arizonian]

I wonder how many other states have shooting ranges on BLM land. There is one near me, basically a wildcat shooting range as there are no controls, just a big hill in the flat desert that's accessible all the way around.

The Phoenix District has the Church Camp Road shooting range that they have built and maintained, complete with AR500 hanging targets. The design of the targets are on their 12th iteration, trying to get the most life out of them before going to the scrap heap.


I could have put this down in Firearms but that would exclude the wandering souls that never register.

[dubby]

That's pretty awesome. Wish I had gov't money to put into targets.

I have heard horror stories of 'public' ranges on fed land where they end up with folks shooting all manner of trash and just leaving it there. Likewise folks just randomly shoot every which direction that suits their fancy that day. Putting in a bit of infrastructure to manage the chaos is likely cheaper than cleaning it all up.

I like the target system design. Certainly robust enough to handle the public. That is my biggest issue and something that costs me money. After touring SHOT looking specifically at options to solve the associated problems with metal targets, there really isn't much there for a commercial/public space.

[toprecycler]

Originally Posted by arizonian

I wonder how many other states have shooting ranges on BLM land. There is one near me, basically a wildcat shooting range as there are no controls, just a big hill in the flat desert that's accessible all the way around.

The Phoenix District has the Church Camp Road shooting range that they have built and maintained, complete with AR500 hanging targets. The design of the targets are on their 12th iteration, trying to get the most life out of them before going to the scrap heap.


I could have put this down in Firearms but that would exclude the wandering souls that never register.

Shoot, at first I thought BLM means Black Lives Matter. When did they get there own federal land? lol.

Oh wait, Bureau of Land Management.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Scotts]

Originally Posted by toprecycler

Shoot, at first I thought BLM means Black Lives Matter. When did they get there own federal land? lol.

Oh wait, Bureau of Land Management.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hell I thought the same thing! 500 of them.

Scott

[toprecycler]

So I finally watched the video. So my question is if the target was curved like a pipe instead of flat, would it help deflect the bullet more and last longer than 3-4 months? I like how they have the target hanging on a clevis and chain link, plus angled down already.

Dubby, What do ya think?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[arizonian]

Originally Posted by toprecycler

So I finally watched the video. So my question is if the target was curved like a pipe instead of flat, would it help deflect the bullet more and last longer than 3-4 months? I like how they have the target hanging on a clevis and chain link, plus angled down already.

Dubby, What do ya think?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not so sure how to curve 3/4" AR500 plate. BIG industrial press, 300 ton maybe.

[dubby]

Originally Posted by toprecycler

So I finally watched the video. So my question is if the target was curved like a pipe instead of flat, would it help deflect the bullet more and last longer than 3-4 months? I like how they have the target hanging on a clevis and chain link, plus angled down already.

Dubby, What do ya think?

So, the plates aren't really intended to deflect. Their job is to "destroy" it if properly set up. When you angle it down, you are attempting to direct the bulk of the leftover junk (particularly the copper jacket pieces) in a manner that won't risk coming back to the shooter.

When you strike a flat plate directly perpendicular, the fragments will blow apart radially. For the most part, all the pieces are harmless but the most rearward components of the bullet have been slowed down during the impact. If they're slowed substantially, they can rebound some distance backwards.

Another thing to worry about is the velocity of the bullet itself. If the round doesn't have enough velocity, it will tend to rebound instead of disintegrate. It will deform and the energy will be redirected back in the direction the shot was fired from. This is particularly noticeable with 22lr pistols and rifles. The length of the barrel gives more time for the powder in a round to act on the projectile. A rifle barrel gives the maximum velocity so you would expect the bullet to flatten and break apart. A pistol has much less velocity and is more prone to rebound. If ANY projectile fails to fall apart, you want it going away from the shooter or anything else of value. Down is always the best direction.

To the nature of the question, if you were to bend the plate you would potentially be directing the trash in an unsafe direction.

These guys are always fun to watch and their newest video on the subject does a great job of explaining a lot more than what they actually discuss. The progress from shooting a soft metal, to regular steel, and finally to a hardened plate using a 9mm and .30-06.

At the end of the video, they accidentally demonstrate why you want the plates to swing. Ideally, the plates would be mounted in a rigid fashion to get the maximum amount of bullet destruction. What they find is that when things are rigidly mounted, shit breaks .

Slow-Mo Steel Shooting

[mccutter]

Originally Posted by dubby

When you strike a flat plate directly perpendicular, the fragments will blow apart radially. For the most part, all the pieces are harmless but the most rearward components of the bullet have been slowed down during the impact. If they're slowed substantially, they can rebound some distance backwards.

Dubby describes "spalling" quite well. The first pic shows an artifact picked up off the ground while resetting drop-down "poppers" between stages of a match. I thought it looked neat and to end up like it is, the bullet would have had to hit the plate dead-on perpendicular. I would guess it is 9mm.

The smaller fragment hit my leg while I was standing near a shaded waiting area well away from the target plates. It was a chunk of spalling that came from a neighboring range/stage set up similarly to the one pictured in the second pic. I was easily 50' from the targets so that shows how far the bullet debris can travel. It didn't draw blood or anything but shows the value of eye protection!

[dubby]

After lunch I decided to run out to check on some progress on another project, that had me over in the area where I could kinda show you guys some more 'evidence' as to how this works. Mind you, my goal is to always accomplish as much as I can, as cheaply as I can--so my shit ain't fancy

My picture of deformed bullets (spall) didn't come out so well so thanks to mccutter for snagging that one.

I'll start with my suspended plates as described in the Arizona video. We use 3/8ths AR that are bolted to 18" long conveyor strap strips, 2" wide. They're then hung to the railroad crosstie off eye hooks in the back which keeps them more or less centered under the tie. Because of the imbalance of the plate, they always hang slightly angled down and back. Looking at pic one, you can see obvious bullet strikes on the RR tie where folks miss. But, looking at it from underneath (pic 3) you can see where the majority of the damage comes from. As the bullet fragments, a large part of it radiates out/upwards into the bottom of the wood. Even those little chunks will tear it up in short order. The pieces of the bullet that travel downward dig a trench under the plates. For the most part though, fragments stop within 5' of the surface towards the shooter.

The 4th pic is of one of our dueling tree stands (no plates installed because that would've required effort). These plates are more rigid, but swing to the alternate side once hit. The stand itself is angled down and back, which holds each plate slightly tilted. They also have a tilt towards the center of the stand so that when they swing they will 'stop'. The interesting thing here to note is the color of the ground in front of it. All of the darker area is small chunks of spalled lead. It reaches out much farther than the flat plates, close to 8 yards in fact. It also spreads much further along the sides and back wall. There is a small trench that develops behind/under it as well but nothing like the upright plates. Honestly, I really dislike dueling trees for a number of reasons but risk of injury and damage to the apparatus are the main two.

The last pic is of one of our plate racks, right next to the dueling tree. These plates are normally standing behind the cross bar and the tops lean towards the shooter. The cross bar also protects the hinges and mechanisms, as it's leaning close to 45°. The angle of the plates allows the majority of the spall th be redirected towards the ground just behind the rack--again digging a trench over time. Very little lead buildup can be found in front of the rack, taken roughly the same distance as that of the dueling tree. Once the plates fall, a rope attached to a reset bar is pulled by the shooter to stand them back up. It digs a pretty good trench too just from all the jerking.