Converting a fuel oil furnace to burn waste oil? Possible?

[allessence]

I would love to say " Yes, its all clean and nothing settles back out" after centrifuge and filter..


Truth is, I'm not a great oil person and do everything wrong and against common sense..

I don't settle the oil for a year or 2 before I use it and I suck off the bottom of the tank (which is where all the crap is, sludge, water, sticks, stones, anti freeze, bugs, mice, etc)..


I've gotten oil from a few sources that had nothing on the bottom of the tank and then from a bunch that the oil was just a layer inside a drum of water.


So, the ability to get as much useable product with the smallest amount of "non usable" oil is what I was after..

This and the ability to clean the oil so I was not constantly having to clean the burner..

I've accomplished this or at least have come as close as I can.

Used oil burners are not a leave it and forget about type of arrangement. (not yet).

A #2 fuel burner might go a few years with no maintenance. Yearly being recommended.

But day in and day out it just does the job..

my experience: From 55gal drum to 55gal drum or 275 tote, to tote there can be lot of difference in both burn (quality and heat) and how the burner does on this new oil..

Even with the secondary filter /water separator on the feeder tank, if enough bits accumulate up in the metering pump, they break off like a blood clot and since I'm running .5gal nozzle and 8psi of air with 0.5-1psi of oil to achieve the burn rate I'm after it can be susceptible to anything in the oil.. (higher burn rates and more air pressure help pull crap thru the nozzle)

So, that was a very long explanation..

I now run my pickup screen on the very bottom of the feeder tank vs 4" off the bottom.

But if I open the bottom water drain I still get some droplets of antifreeze from 2 years ago when I ended up with that 40gallons of antifreeze in that clean oil.. LOL..

I will also connect this outlet to the pump and run the feeder tank oil thru the centrifuge if I feel the need.

I have not cleaned the secondary filter on the feeder tank in over a year..

I was cleaning this about every 3 months before the centrifuge.

Sorry I don't have a crystal clear answer.

[allessence]

So here is the amount of water I just pulled from the feeder tank.. If I shake the tank some it will usually collect a little more.. I only drilled large holes in the bottom of the tank to allow for stuff to find its way into this drain.

so sometimes the water sits up on the flat section and by moving the tank the oil sloshes around and more droplet find there way.

The bowl from the water trap/filter.. This is a Chinese Racor filter.. It's for diesel fuel.. I've never technically needed to clean the pleated filter.. But I have clean the bowl a number of times..

The oil pickup came from just below the filter on the bottom of the tank and is the reason the filter is mounted so low..

At some point I'll make new mounting bolts and move it towards the top more.. As it is now it's a tough adventure removing the water from the bowl and or removing the bowl for wiping out.

now that the school has electricity I can weld in there.. So that's on the list.

[Whitetrash]

To me your biggest issue seems to revolve around end usage. What works fine for the School Furnace is No Bueno for the 7.3 Perhaps just separating based on known cleaner sources versus going the extra mile straining garbage. Would hugely simplify things and cut down on time you could allocate elsewhere. Just a thought.

[allessence]

Originally Posted by Whitetrash

To me your biggest issue seems to revolve around end usage. What works fine for the School Furnace is No Bueno for the 7.3 Perhaps just separating based on known cleaner sources versus going the extra mile straining garbage. Would hugely simplify things and cut down on time you could allocate elsewhere. Just a thought.

Yes, that would be the easiest.. But not the simplest. with the advent of "black diesel" used oil is actually harder to get.. The market is far more competitive and most of the "black diesel" guys are really into it and have lifestyles that are conducive.

They will bulk storage the stuff in totes stacked 2 high by 5 wide and let the stuff settle for years.. LOL..

My end goal is to have a reliable oil burning furnace that is just a matter of hitting the pump button, the feeder tank fills up and I"m done..

for the most part I'm nearly there..

So the big question is "what do others do with all their sludge".. I don't know as its not talked about.. I know that when I'm done there is exactly 0 liquid, or bits.. and just a little bit of ash..

This 0 or nearly 0 byproducts in solid or liquid form is what I'm after.. Well that and heat..

I just watched a video with 275gallons of sludge as he pumps off the top of his transport tank.

Like anything. Its complexity is simple.. Nothing is simple, but hey. It's all about the journey I guess..

I do add oil taken from the feeder tank to the 7.3l fuel tank and it likes it.

I add about 10 gallons to a 40gallon fuel tank.

[toprecycler]

Walked into the shop this morning to find it colder inside than outside.

Just some other random thoughts.

At work, our Shindawua (?) oil burner has been giving us more than usual problems over the last couple years. Boss has tried many different things. Most frequently first thing is changing the burner orfice tip. I like his burner setup for that reason. The tube with the burner tip just slides out for easy changing. In my burner, I have to remove entire burner and fan assembly.

Part of his problem, I wanted to attribute to the pump from the storage tanks is higher than the tanks, and then pumps the oil up 6 more feet and then across 10’ and down to the furnace, which is in the center of the room, kinda.

One site where I got some feedback from recommendation was against this type of setup. You want the feeder lines from the tank to the burner all going uphill as possible, to avoid any air being stuck in the lines. This is my ultimate goal. My current setup is anything but this now.

Also my boss had heating fuel oil delivered to help make our oil more burn able. But I think this was trying to come up with solution to existing problems. I think we also changed the main feeder pump too.

This year, he bought a new burner . I have to say that it seem like most of the problems went away. It seems to run much more consistent.

And he sent old one in to be rebuilt so we have a spare.

I think he has the burner set fairly low in flame. We use this furnace to get rid of the old hydraulic oil we produce rebuilding cylinders. And nice to supplement our natural gas heat. The furnace runs only when we are in the shop working. And runs constantly without a thermostat.









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[mccutter]

Originally Posted by allessence

...with the advent of "black diesel" used oil is actually harder to get.. The market is far more competitive and most of the "black diesel" guys are really into it and have lifestyles that are conducive.

I almost bought a "Greasel" 86 VW Golf with collection tanks and setup in the back cargo area. And I've passed on a couple Mercedes as well. The premise is you go to a restaurant and collect their used cooking oil for "free" then filter it and drive for free! Sounds simple, right?

One reason it didn't catch on was because to use the veg oil, for best reliability you had to start the engine on diesel (valved input to the inj. pump) and then stop the engine on diesel so it would start the next time. Some systems also had a way to heat the veg oil with engine coolant once the engine warmed up. So not quite as easy as turning the key on, waiting for the glow plugs to warm, then starting. Once the engine was warm, it would usually restart on veg oil.

Another reason is that companies began recycling the waste oil from restaurants and started PAYING them for it so why would they give it away?

Could you run vegetable oil in your furnaces?

BTW: I have this furnace testing thingy I have absolutely no use for, operating condition unknown. I think some of the calibration fluid or whatever it is has leaked out. But it is what it is. Does anyone want it? If you walked into my shop, I would hand it to you for free. If I have to ship it, I will expect a donation from you as I'll have to spend time packaging it. I would estimate the shipping to be $30-$40 but I'd have to weigh it and measure it and have a zip code to be certain. PM an offer and zipcode if you're serious, otherwise it is going in the dumpster soon. It is a Bacharach 11-9026 FYRITE Gas Analyzer if you want to research it.

[allessence]

youch.. You are in Michigan though.. I'm not privy to temps in your area locally but when the Canadian cold blows down it seems to stream in your area.

Walking into a shop with an used oil burner not running is no fun.. Especially one that does not hold the heat well.

I've had the oil burner quit (plugged nozzle, power outage, compressor wont restart after power outage) or I've messed up leaving a primer valve open (hit on accident) creating a vacuum leak and air into the system.

With the building insulated as well as it is, it's not as much of a problem as it's still 50F after 24hrs on a 30f temp day.

All the oil pumps are supposed to be pressure out, vacuum in.. The seals are not designed for pressure feed so they are usually mounted on top of the tank.

The overhead line is frowned upon because of air being tramped in the line as you mentioned...

Having a bleed port is a way to negate this.. As is having a primer bulb on the bleed port.

The large 2" nipples are the feeder/bleeder valves.. These were a game changer in terms of ease in bleeding the lines.

You can see the primer bulbs on the top of the feeder tank. One for the Filter side and 1 for the intake side of the metering pump.

You can also see the vacuum gage just before the metering pump and just after the filter.. This will let me know if the filter is clogged..

Should the pump feed line fill with air before or after the large filter there is a way to get rid of the air.

Now priming the lines is super fast and easy. I also use clear line so I can see air in the line coming from the pickup tube in the feeder tank.

This will always trap a small bubble just after the fitting which grows some with vacuum.. If there is a problem this bubble grows in size until there is no more oil picked up at the bottom intake.

I had a bad hose clamp on the clear hose and it was having the ability to see how the bubble was forming that I found the bad clamp.

Adding Fuel oil is great when the used oil is super thick or it's quality is really bad (low BTU)..

But I have found it can loosen junk stuck inside the lines if the ratio is to much.

When it comes time to clean out the really bad tank, I'll use diesel sprayed in with a pressure sprayer and then suck out all the crap..

This tank does not have a water drain.. or I'd suck it out there..

[allessence]

Originally Posted by mccutter

I almost bought a "Greasel" 86 VW Golf with collection tanks and setup in the back cargo area. And I've passed on a couple Mercedes as well. The premise is you go to a restaurant and collect their used cooking oil for "free" then filter it and drive for free! Sounds simple, right?

One reason it didn't catch on was because to use the veg oil, for best reliability you had to start the engine on diesel (valved input to the inj. pump) and then stop the engine on diesel so it would start the next time. Some systems also had a way to heat the veg oil with engine coolant once the engine warmed up. So not quite as easy as turning the key on, waiting for the glow plugs to warm, then starting. Once the engine was warm, it would usually restart on veg oil.

Another reason is that companies began recycling the waste oil from restaurants and started PAYING them for it so why would they give it away?

Could you run vegetable oil in your furnaces?

Yes, that is the other thing.. Lots of the rules now with used oil. and yes, Veggy oil is big business..

Some places still throw it out.. But most places don't..

I've stopped by and asked a few but they pointed out the collection tub they use so now look for the recycling info on it.

Yes, I can burn veggie oil in my furnace.. I can burn nearly any fluid (oil type) and even up to 10% gasoline, and lacquer thinner. acetone, etc. etc. Even old oil based paint. I stay away from the paint though I was told the furnace will burn it just fine. I will throw in my left overs from cleaning my paint gun when shooting with Rustoleum though..

The magic behind this is a variable temperature nozzle heater and the metering pump.

Synthetic oils like a little higher temperature to burn.. My heater can be adjusted from 100-200F though the 140 to 165F range is good.

I'm all set on the testing equipment.. I bought a modern electronic sniffer..

Usually I just look for that nice soft flame with no sparkles.. Very close to what one would see in a properly tuned #2 fuel burner.

[toprecycler]

So I learned a valuable lesson tonight. Be prepared for an oil spill.

I brought in a propane tank of oil and started pressure removing the oil with my made up dip tube fixture. Even put on a newer shorter sock filter to make it easier to swap buckets under it. After about a minute or two, I started seeing an oil puddle form around the bottom of the tank.

I guess it sat in the dirt so long, it rusted out, and when I added 20-30 PSI, that’s what it took to start leaking.

So I ended up grabbing my little 1 gallon shop vac, and vacuumed the oil up from the floor, after I found a tote to put the tank into to try to contain the leaking oil. I managed to only get about 3 gallons out filtered, the rest of the 20 gallons was with the shop vac. Now a real chore to filter this oil. I’m too frugal to just burn it in fire pit.

Guess I need to make up a tank to set barrels and propane tanks in case of future leaks.




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[allessence]

[QUOTE=toprecycler;798712]So I learned a valuable lesson tonight. Be prepared for an oil spill.

I brought in a propane tank of oil and started pressure removing the oil with my made up dip tube fixture. Even put on a newer shorter sock filter to make it easier to swap buckets under it. After about a minute or two, I started seeing an oil puddle form around the bottom of the tank.

I guess it sat in the dirt so long, it rusted out, and when I added 20-30 PSI, that’s what it took to start leaking.

So I ended up grabbing my little 1 gallon shop vac, and vacuumed the oil up from the floor, after I found a tote to put the tank into to try to contain the leaking oil. I managed to only get about 3 gallons out filtered, the rest of the 20 gallons was with the shop vac. Now a real chore to filter this oil. I’m too frugal to just burn it in fire pit.

Guess I need to make up a tank to set barrels and propane tanks in case of future leaks.

/QUOTE]

Bummer. Sorry to hear it.

Leaks can be super messy. A real pain.

Dawn dish washing liquid. I also use a product called Petro buster. Works a treat but kinda pricey.

Had a hose blow on the manlift an was not able to recover all the oil. Spayed the petrobuster on it following the directions and a year later I dug up the place and there was nothing. Not even colored dirt.

What a pain and bummer. Sorry.