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  #31  
Old 12-26-2019, 01:05 PM
KBS KBS is offline
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I'm my last post I answered the questions that you listed. I did not treat them as rhetorical. A few years back I was talking to a machinist that was building a all out high performance engine and was surprised at all of the compromises he was making against longevity. His reply was that modern stock pistons where going that way too. I did not get into a discussion that included 'molecular force' or anything that would be outside of a race car builders understanding.Every one uses abstractions to some degree.Maybe I should have used the term 'rapid evaporation instead of 'cook' but for a non chemical engineer, its not misleading.

4.7's are proven to have Massive sludge and oil circulation issues with conventional oil and they run hotter than most engines because the piston gets hotter from combustion without a means to transfer the heat. A 4.7 run exclusively on 'walmart sold synthetic' does not do this.

A lot of solids or semi solids is created in the 4.7 that can not be related to other engines that have had enormous blow by issues or anything else common. Mid 80's GM's produced a lot of sludge but they where re-routing emission gases to be re-burned and were also carbureted.

So is conventional oil acting as a catalyst to re-routed combustion gases or is the oil molecule it's self being altered? I'm not a chemist with 30 years experience so I only know the abstracted reason that it's the oil.

Another engine builder informed me that valve seals are much more tolerant of heat than they once were and are not generally a source of oil consumption in modern cars. I don't personally know the physical characteristics of seals so I have a abstracted understanding of them.
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  #32  
Old 12-26-2019, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KBS View Post
I'm my last post I answered the questions that you listed. I did not treat them as rhetorical. A few years back I was talking to a machinist that was building a all out high performance engine and was surprised at all of the compromises he was making against longevity. His reply was that modern stock pistons where going that way too. I did not get into a discussion that included 'molecular force' or anything that would be outside of a race car builders understanding.Every one uses abstractions to some degree.Maybe I should have used the term 'rapid evaporation instead of 'cook' but for a non chemical engineer, its not misleading.

You missed my point, doesn't matter if you are running Conventional, Syn
Blend or synthetics, they all break down in the same temperature range.
They engine can be a bad design, switching engine oils are not going to
change that, increase viscosity of the engine oil is not going to solve that,
but actually will like likely make it worse. Higher viscosity oil will reduce
flow, and flow is critical to cooling wear surfaces and components.


4.7's are proven to have Massive sludge and oil circulation issues with conventional oil and they run hotter than most engines because the piston gets hotter from combustion without a means to transfer the heat.
Again a design issue not a lubrication issue.

A 4.7 run exclusively on 'walmart sold synthetic' does not do this.
If you change oil often enough that will work I guess...

A lot of solids or semi solids is created in the 4.7 that can not be related to other engines that have had enormous blow by issues or anything else common. Mid 80's GM's produced a lot of sludge but they where re-routing emission gases to be re-burned and were also carbureted.
Back in the 80 people changed oil a lot more often also.

So is conventional oil acting as a catalyst to re-routed combustion gases or is the oil molecule it's self being altered? I'm not a chemist with 30 years experience so I only know the abstracted reason that it's the oil.
"Conventional oil is acting as a catalyst?" I will have a save
that bit of wisdom. But Group III synthetics that make up 90% of the market
also come from crude.


Another engine builder informed me that valve seals are much more tolerant of heat than they once were and are not generally a source of oil consumption in modern cars. I don't personally know the physical characteristics of seals so I have a abstracted understanding of them.
Viton
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  #33  
Old 12-28-2019, 09:10 PM
KBS KBS is offline
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Have a read.

https://blog.amsoil.com/how-engine-s...to-prevent-it/

https://www.yourmechanic.com/article...tor-oil-sludge
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  #34  
Old 12-28-2019, 09:32 PM
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Well, the current API engine oil specification for gasoline engine is the SN
classification. Whether it is a conventional, synthetic they meet the same
standards.

To meet NOWAK volatility requirements, Group I base stocks are no longer a
viable option. So Group IIs have to be used. The oxidation stability of Group
II and Group III base stocks are the same. Like I mentioned above Group III
are highly refined crude oil but because of the Mobil v. Castrol law suit and
resulting case law. In the US Group III's are able to me marketed as
synthetic. That is not true in all countries, German and Japan require Group
IIIs to be marketed as conventional oil.

So what 'synthetic' oil are you referring to?

Also Amsoil does not sell a convention product. Only synthetics, so I would
be a little more critical of who you quote, they make a very good product,
but it will void you car or truck warrantee as they do not certify their products
under API, ILSAC or GM dexos systems.

Now to use the API testing for SN service grade oil. Sequence VG is the test
that is used, it is an engine test. All oils convention or synthetic have to pass
the same testing. Additive packages, know as a D&I package are optimized
to pass the test at the lowest possible cost. So what else do you want to
know.
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  #35  
Old 12-28-2019, 09:38 PM
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https://www.api.org/~/media/Files/Ce...7rev021218.pdf
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  #36  
Old 12-28-2019, 09:39 PM
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For reference.

https://www.api.org/~/media/Files/Ce...7rev021218.pdf
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