Plasma Cutter & Plasma/AC-DC TIG/Stick (Inverter Design = Magic!)

[platypus20]

I actually spent close to a year and a half in China, over 13-14 visits, I know from a first hand, what the Chinese are capable of. I've worked in many different types of manufacturing and design facilities. I've seen some of their top of the line equipment, in machine tools, welders, plasma cutters and PLCs, to name a few. Their top of the line equipment, is truly cutting edge, their top of the line welders and plasma cutters are equal to, if not superior to anything Miller and Lincoln manufacture.

I was in one of the factories, that build some of the welders/plasma cutters, of the design, you showed in your pictures, trust me, they are not or will ever be cutting edge. When they use huge globs of silicone to hold capacitors, transformers and other parts from flopping around, thats hardly build quality, thats cram the parts in there and hope for the best. I'm not saying the design is bad, the actual parts and build quality, leave a lot to desire.

I have friends with some of these Chinese machines, about half of them have had huge problems, DOA right out of the box, repeated parts failures and long delays to get them back up and running. The other half have had nothing, but great performance and durability. We are not talking about 2-3 machines, were talking close to 20 machines, so it been a good sample pool. To me a 50/50 ratio, is not what I'm looking for, when I flick the switch, I need it to run.

When I buy a product for less than $100, I consider it a throw away, I don't expect or need a repair network. If I'm spending a couple of thousand dollars, I not only expect, but demand an actual repair network. If it become necessary, for me to remove the cover and start changing parts, then to me, unless its a Studebaker, Hudson or a DeSoto, then its a product I don't need.

I spent close to $10,000 on a Miller Dynasty 350 DX, the last thing I'm going to do is remove the cover and change parts. If it needs service, it goes to the authorized Miller repair shop. I want whoever pulls that cover to fully understand the operation and also be responsible if they make a mistake. I had the Miller rep, make a mistake on a 5 yr old welder, they gave me a new welder, no BS, no hemming and hawing. They made the mistake, acknowledged it and I had a new welder in less that 2 hours.

I have 14+ welders and 4 plasma cutters, I bought all of them brand new, some of them are over 35-40 yrs old, all of them work, as they did when they were brand new. I wanted and paid for quality and quality is what I got. I have no doubt that someday China will get to that place quality wise, Japan, Korea and others had painful learning curves, but learned from their mistakes and improved and moved forward. Someday China will, but the product you hawking isn't there yet.

[WeekendWarrior]

Well said Platypus and I agree.

It's one thing to plop down $100 for something cheap and wholly another when you're spending thousands. I have no doubt the Chinese can make quality items, but when they do, they can't sell it any cheaper here and they are then faced with the support network issue.

There is a reason cheap Chinese stuff is cheap.

[GWIZ]

Originally Posted by DivTec

Damn... I forgot the smiley icon. :-]

Are you or have you been related to or associated to
Everlast or Longevity in any way ?

[DivTec]

Originally Posted by SmokinDodge

He won't make one available Ron. He knows it won't stack up to our current equipment.

I'll stick with my multi purpose SA 200.

Originally Posted by SmokinDodge

He won't make one available Ron. He knows it won't stack up to our current equipment.

I'll stick with my multi purpose SA 200.

SmokinDodge to be clear... oh, yes I will make one available for you guys to evaluate at your late May meeting.

I'll be GLAD for you guys to test the hell out of my machine, as long as your evaluation is honest, without bias. Hopeuflly, if there is enough of you guys evaluating it you may be able to keep each other honest.

I'm really quite surprised that some of you guys are not excited about... and actually seem pissed at... me offering a machine with great performance at a price that others (your friends) could afford. What's that about? It must be some "human" condition.

Actually I think ShadTree original suggestion of evaluating my machine at your meeting in late May is a good one. Realize I do not know the details of your meeting and most likely won't need too if you don't want to tell me.

Since there would be a significant number of people to evaluate it, each could contribute to the cost of the machine. When the evaluation is over I would provide full refund unless someone decides to keep it. We could use PayPal to handle the funding.

I really am interested in you guys evaluating my machine and reporting back comments and suggestions. BTW... my confidence is base upon many pro-welders that have bought it. EVERY one of them said it performs as good or better than what they have used. I take their feedback and reason them out in technical terms. There are many more feature that can be incorporated... any suggestions?

I viewed a great youtube video about the SA 200 (DC Stick and Voltage Controlled Wire Feed) that SmokinDodge has. It was very interesting and briefly explained why people love the Lincoln SA 200 and some details about Arc Force. Check it out: https://youtu.be/dYQijLxwQ5M
I LIKE THAT LINCOLN SA 200!

At last I have something to compare my machine against... with regard to the SA 200 DC Stick function as about 125 - 135 amps.
So... time to make a video of my PT50/200ACDC performance at same amperage. Hopefully I can post it within a few days.

Since it was a good video and audio it will be easy to compare the DC arc smoothness and weld quality. Naturally since I'm not a welder hopefully my handicap won't screw things up. If I screw up, let me how.

Sidebar: The obviously very experienced welder in the video explained a bit about (load voltage and load current) of the arc, that was interesting. One very positive point about electronics is that one can engineer virtually any wave-shape desired relatively easily.

Stand by for the video: daa-daa-daa-daaaaa

[Shade Tree Welder]

Originally Posted by DivTec

Actually I think ShadTree original suggestion of evaluating my machine at your meeting in late May is a good one. Realize I do not know the details of your meeting and most likely won't need too if you don't want to tell me.

Details...

We weld.
We unload ammo.
Neal cooks.
We eat good.
We drink beer.
We verbally abuse Finchy.
Life is good.

My original request was not to purchase a welder...
You are welcome to come and visit as well.

[DivTec]

Originally Posted by midmosandblasting

Question if I have trouble will the parts ans service be available timely.I do qualify as hobby but serious when on it?

At last a very important question.

The answer is... you are covered in a way that is no longer available in the USA.
That is a very sad thing to say but, unfortunately true.

Like I said before I am left over from a bygone era.

I feel comfortable in saying I am the only company that provides repair service for our machines to the component level. To be able to do that we must understand the electronics theory of operation of all circuits in our machines... and we do.

This has a very positive side-effect also in that we are able to solve most technical problems by phone collaboration with the customer.

With us, customer support is a rule... not an exception!

Another good think with regard to machine design. The parts are generic!
We (and the customer) are not locked up with proprietary parts. In fact OFTEN I will collaborate with the customer, and if he's interested and able, I will send him the parts and he does the physical repair. This is really only to avoid the horrible shipping "service" risk of damage in transit that exists these days... and it's getting worse.

In summary... you are covered with exceptional service and repair from us.

This is why I've taken the time to substantiate in some technical detail in my posts... as proof I'm not blowing smoke and I know what I'm talking about.

[DivTec]

Originally Posted by GWIZ

That is the up side.
now tell us the down side about the chain reaction when one fails?
Then matching transistors so one does not do more work than the others.

===
Not being specific to any welder.
I don't recall if your welder was on the market when I did my research unless Precise-weld is a re-bagged machine.

Years back I considered selling multipurpose Chinese welders and repairing them, being that I can trouble shoot to the component level.
the failures were burned up circuit boards.
Further research the common problem was the power boards that paralleled the transistors, when they went out they burned holes through the circuit boards making them un-repairable.

I wasn't going to take chances.

I have not kept up to date, but it looks like some of the single purpose machines that just use the 4 transistors are holding up.
===
From this link
http://173.255.200.154/index.php?topic=44990.225

"So i am dead in the water till i can get the welder running. The problem is that it is a knock off brand and i can find any info on it anywhere. it is a Precise-weld TIG200ACDCS anybody have any experience with those? My friend is currently looking at it and said the whole power control board is fried. not sure what i will be doing, i have to wait and see what my options are."

Gee I wonder if that is the board with the paralleled transistors?
.
.

Great post!

In theory you are correct about the "down-side" and how you describe the potential cascade type of failure.

However, although that cascade effect can happen with our machines it rarely does due to the extremely fast shut-down. The burned pcb just looks worse that it is actually. This can happen with any machine, some more than others depending upon the protection circuitry design. Think about this. The MOSFET switch at 104,000 time per second. For the shut-down circuit to catch a fault and act within 0.0000096 (9.6 millionths of a second) is very cool technically. BTW... that switching speed is what causes the machine to be so efficient, low weight, small size. That is the reason for the speed. Compare that to old technology of a transformer based plasma or welder operating at 60 cycles per second... with a duty-cycle of ~30%, hundred pounds or so, size of a large cooler chest or more... and you could cook your lunch on it (wasted power/heat).

Here is why the paralleling is most of time not subject to that "down-side" you accurately described even though it happened to you.

Summary: There is a very fast shut-down circuit that "most of the time" can catch one MOSFET shorting and shut down before the others fail. However, it depends upon how it shorts as to weather it can detect that first excessive load.

By the way... the Precise-Weld 200 is our machine... and in fact is the basis of the PT50/200ACDC. We just added plasma function. I use the term "just" loosely.

I will check our that link as see if I can help him get his machine back up.

With regard to the statement "...whole power control board..." I'm not sure what he is referring too. We've had pcb burn failures on the top board (MOSFET high-current switches) as mentioned above which is quite rare... and also mid-board burn due to solder joint failure in high current circuit... and primary power supply pcb burn due to failure of high current component connections, bla, bla, bla.

Actually I'd rather have a failure with a pcb burn because usually means simple fix. Although it looks horrible, it isn't. Pcb's are just structures to hold the components and connections. If you get a flat tire you repair it, not replace it. So I disagree with your statement... "...burned holes through the circuit boards making them unrepairable." BTW... component level repair is more that just physically replacing parts. Troubleshooting is what requires understanding the electronics theory of operation of the whole machine and circuits involved. Those are the people that can't be found anymore.

[DivTec]

Originally Posted by Shade Tree Welder

Details...

We weld.
We unload ammo.
Neal cooks.
We eat good.
We drink beer.
We verbally abuse Finchy.
Life is good.

My original request was not to purchase a welder...
You are welcome to come and visit as well.

Proper business dictates that I provide it as a loan with security.
My post did clearly state that after, I would provide full refund.
No purchase expected.

Thanks for the invite... where is this fun time event being held and when?

BTW... that's interesting, when a teen, early 60's, we had a guy we called Finky that we verbally abused. I still have the knot on my head from when he scored with a wrench he threw.

[DivTec]

Originally Posted by GWIZ

That is the up side.
now tell us the down side about the chain reaction when one fails?
Then matching transistors so one does not do more work than the others.

===
Not being specific to any welder.
I don't recall if your welder was on the market when I did my research unless Precise-weld is a re-bagged machine.

Years back I considered selling multipurpose Chinese welders and repairing them, being that I can trouble shoot to the component level.
the failures were burned up circuit boards.
Further research the common problem was the power boards that paralleled the transistors, when they went out they burned holes through the circuit boards making them un-repairable.

I wasn't going to take chances.

I have not kept up to date, but it looks like some of the single purpose machines that just use the 4 transistors are holding up.
===
From this link
http://173.255.200.154/index.php?topic=44990.225

"So i am dead in the water till i can get the welder running. The problem is that it is a knock off brand and i can find any info on it anywhere. it is a Precise-weld TIG200ACDCS anybody have any experience with those? My friend is currently looking at it and said the whole power control board is fried. not sure what i will be doing, i have to wait and see what my options are."

Gee I wonder if that is the board with the paralleled transistors?
.
.

I found the post regarding that Precise-Weld TIG200ACDCS failure. Here is the direct link to the photo of failure http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...ps6ptndatu.jpg

Wow... that is one dirty machine. BTW... it is good to blow all machines out with dry compressed air from time to time.

That is the High Voltage Arc Start board in the photo. And it makes sense that if failed the way it did because most likely there was an arc to a critical connection through that dirt. Key word here is HIGH VOLTAGE. Like 10,000 volts that is always happy to find a new path of conduction.

It looks bad... but is in fact can be patched/repaired. Really not a big deal... it could have been avoided.

That post is quite old... 2013 so if only he would have thought to do an internet search he should have been able to locate us.

That's really a pretty simple fix... and not all that expensive either.

[DivTec]

Originally Posted by platypus20

I actually spent close to a year and a half in China, over 13-14 visits, I know from a first hand, what the Chinese are capable of. I've worked in many different types of manufacturing and design facilities. I've seen some of their top of the line equipment, in machine tools, welders, plasma cutters and PLCs, to name a few. Their top of the line equipment, is truly cutting edge, their top of the line welders and plasma cutters are equal to, if not superior to anything Miller and Lincoln manufacture.

I was in one of the factories, that build some of the welders/plasma cutters, of the design, you showed in your pictures, trust me, they are not or will ever be cutting edge. When they use huge globs of silicone to hold capacitors, transformers and other parts from flopping around, thats hardly build quality, thats cram the parts in there and hope for the best. I'm not saying the design is bad, the actual parts and build quality, leave a lot to desire.

I have friends with some of these Chinese machines, about half of them have had huge problems, DOA right out of the box, repeated parts failures and long delays to get them back up and running. The other half have had nothing, but great performance and durability. We are not talking about 2-3 machines, were talking close to 20 machines, so it been a good sample pool. To me a 50/50 ratio, is not what I'm looking for, when I flick the switch, I need it to run.

When I buy a product for less than $100, I consider it a throw away, I don't expect or need a repair network. If I'm spending a couple of thousand dollars, I not only expect, but demand an actual repair network. If it become necessary, for me to remove the cover and start changing parts, then to me, unless its a Studebaker, Hudson or a DeSoto, then its a product I don't need.

I spent close to $10,000 on a Miller Dynasty 350 DX, the last thing I'm going to do is remove the cover and change parts. If it needs service, it goes to the authorized Miller repair shop. I want whoever pulls that cover to fully understand the operation and also be responsible if they make a mistake. I had the Miller rep, make a mistake on a 5 yr old welder, they gave me a new welder, no BS, no hemming and hawing. They made the mistake, acknowledged it and I had a new welder in less that 2 hours.

I have 14+ welders and 4 plasma cutters, I bought all of them brand new, some of them are over 35-40 yrs old, all of them work, as they did when they were brand new. I wanted and paid for quality and quality is what I got. I have no doubt that someday China will get to that place quality wise, Japan, Korea and others had painful learning curves, but learned from their mistakes and improved and moved forward. Someday China will, but the product you hawking isn't there yet.

EXACTLY! You are correct!

There is a very, extreme, problem with build quality of Chinese products.
I have never been able to just import machines and send them out. You just can not do that with Chinese products.

But, that is where we come in. Every machine we import goes through a procedure that you could call product build corrections or something like that. This happens to every machine before we ship it out to customers.

So... one should NEVER buy a Chinese machine from a general merchant. They do not have the ability to solidate (not sure if there is such a word but, I like it) the build before selling. Also we add our own technical embellishments.

So... due to China, many more people can own a mult-purpose plasma/welder at an affordable price, that performs every bit as good or better as the "high quality" (same parts, fact) name brands.

So if your in the market for a machine that does it all and don't have the money to pay "up front" for that "status" and perceived security of owning one of the other brands... it's a GOOD thing!

With us, not only do you get a machine that will perform but, you get proper technical support that just does not exist anymore for a price that is affordable by many more people.

Compare, $2000, $3000, $5000, $10000 (as mentioned above) for status and service? Well, my machine is $1199 with a 1 year labor, 3 years electronic parts and free phone tech support.

Actually, those that want security I can extend that warranty to anything they want for a hell of allot less than the costs mentioned above.

www.parkermetalworking.com
480-983-6030
parkermetalworking@yahoo.com