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Old 05-25-2020, 09:47 PM
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Ironman Ironman is offline
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Default Keeping up with Scott

As I have mentioned in other threads, I changed out my old well jet pump for a submersible. I was very pleased with the performance and had great hopes. I have now determined that the well collapsed at the 60ft mark. It has pumped a shitload of sand and mud when we were pumping it out after shock chlorination. As it is from 1958, we decided that bandaids will not work, and I have to have a new well.

I've lived most my life on wells, but never seen one drilled. And in case I am not the only one in this canoe, I thought I would post some pictures of the operation.
First the drill rig
second is setting up
third collaring the hole
fourth making mud.
and fifth, putting casing down
I was interested to note that there was about 6 ft of gooey yellow clay and then sand, and further down yellow sand/clay mix. They hit the shale at 78 feet, and drilled 10 ft into it. Then pulled out the drill string and started putting steel casing down the hole, and welding every joint.
Then when they could not force the pipe further, they set up to drive the pipe down into the shale hole with a percussion hammer.
Then Murphy paid a visit and the 3" bullhose feeding the air hammer blew out. That took 3 hours to find and replace. At this point the day is baked and everyone went home, more pictures tomorrow.
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Last edited by Ironman; 05-25-2020 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:10 PM
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Did they say why steel instead of PVC?
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:42 PM
Samcord Samcord is offline
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Can you drive pvc into shale?
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Old 05-26-2020, 03:48 AM
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Up until a few years ago "drilling" a well meant using a drop hammer and bail--now it's all done with rotary units. The rotaries kind of got their start in the well drilling game when some of the commercial drillers around here (who mostly did foundation piers, test holes and elevator shafts) got slow and took on some well drilling on the side. It soon became clear that they were way faster than the old hammers and everybody started switching to stay competitive. I haven't seen a drop hammer working in quite a few years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Did they say why steel instead of PVC?
I've never heard of using PVC for well casing--I don't think it's even allowed here in B.C. And like Sam says, if you get into tough going you'd never be able to drive it.

I wonder how they managed to drill that deep and then run the casing in? I've seen wells around here where they have to drop in a section of casing every ten feet; sometimes even shorter pieces. Depends how stable your ground is and how much caving your experiencing...
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Old 05-26-2020, 06:40 AM
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Here, if they hit rock they use a rock bit to drill. They use 20' sections of 6" PVC glued together as they lower them in.
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Old 05-26-2020, 07:19 AM
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In Onterrible, mostly when I was a kid, I saw quite a few wells done. Water wells were all done with a drop type rig like Keith is describing, wish I could remember what they called them. The water guys all said the rotaries were too fast, that it was easy to overshoot the water level and screw up the well in the ground conditions we had. It was always steel casing, and would get added every 10-20 feet, and driven in with the drop unit. These drop units the ‘tools’ I’ll call them, all hung from a cable, and they would switch tools for different tasks. I remember there being the main one, it was heavy and just fit in the casing with a small clearance, and they had bailers for clearing out the mud and water, and not sure what else.

They all had a mechanism, I seem to think ‘walking beam’ was the term, that went up and down, driven by gears or a crankshaft setup, and allowed a couple feet or so of up/down motion in the cable. I always found the rythym interesting, like a ahaper or old steam train engine it was always in a ‘pulse’.

The only time I saw a rotary was a house that had wells put in for geothermal heat, and those they just put temporary collars in, then they dropped the pipe loop in, backfilled with I believe a form of bentonite clay, then pulled the collars and backfilled the tops after the pipe loops were all connected.


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Old 05-26-2020, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Did they say why steel instead of PVC?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcord View Post
Can you drive pvc into shale?
Yes, they said why steel. It is dependent on the ground. You can't drive plastic into shale. In this area, there are shale floaters that you go through, and they move over time. You can see the results on YT of cracked plastic casing. So as we went through two of them with the tri-cone in the initial hole, when we got to hammer the casing down, they could push it easily til the first floater. They they fired up the hammer. Once the casing was into the rock, they will drill through it and into the sandstone. They hate drilling in gravel because the have to chase the casing down every few feet to keep the hole open. The bit they use is slightly smaller then the OD of plastic casing. After that, they pull out the drill string and then run plastic casing inside the steel pipe. This plastic screws together. They will push the plastic down until it comes out into the rock and it is a tight fit to the drilled bore.

It is probably illegal to use plastic in BC, after all most things cause cancer in California, and besides, plastic is made from oil. Thankfully

The cable drills greywynd is talking about are still around here, all in private hands. They all are capable of drilling in this ground up to 4 inch. They are called sluggers here. Wooden towers and such. We are preparing for the eventuality of socialism coming to Alberta, and drilling a well that the government know nothing about is paramount. The last 5year socialist nightmare almost had them succeeding in charging us for the water in our wells. To keep us safe... They really dislike the farm and rural crowd.

There are gas wells here that no body knows about, too. The lucky ones have some gas in the water well and a gas separator allows you to heat with it. 20 years ago I looked at a house like that, but could not afford it.

All the commercial guys such as Black Dog, are using the hydraulic rotary and air/water flushing and air hammer. If they had not broken that hose the well would have been to depth by days end. I'm hoping to hit water at 160 ft, and I will be whining if it goes over 180.

They do not want to use my shiny new pitless adapter. Len the owner says if they have to pull the pump and go down the hole again, that will not allow it, and would have to be removed first. So there is a pitless adapter they recommend called a Snappy that leaves the bore smooth on the inside. Never heard of it.

I ordered a new pump. I wanted to have a backup unit anyway, and now that this one has been run dry, and had some fine sand and clay through it, this unit will be my spare. The motor would have still been in water and it still sipped water as it came in. It still does make pressure, but for the money I'll go new all the way.

More fun today....to be continued.
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Aaron Neville.

The virtue is always a cover for the sin. That's the key to understanding the modern left. Whatever they're accusing you of doing, they are doing themselves but more enthusiastically. And that's definitely the story of Justin Trudeau. Tucker Carlson
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Old 05-26-2020, 08:19 AM
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Down here they use PVC pipe a lot for well casing.
Its not the same pipe as regular 4'' sch. 40.
The well pipe is heavier in weigh and the local building supply sells it,i used it for the sewer lines on my RV sites down at the beach.
I used the heavy stuff because of the traffic driving into and out of the sites.
I did no want collapsed pipes.
I think the bell end has a longer bell too,it must be 6-8''.
It costs a little more money,but not a huge amount.

Remember,here in the south the sewer lines are shallow,we use a grinder pump and a 50 gal tank and that pumps out to the street/city sewer.
The 5' holes for the grinder and tank wold have ground water in them,and the top of the tanks has to be on grade for servicing.
Some of my horizontal sewer runs are less than a foot deep.
No frost here,all sand.

I think regular PVC has a foam core and this well casing is solid.
Of course that may all be regional as well.
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Old 05-26-2020, 09:59 AM
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In my part of the world the static water level is presently 28-30'....has been there for as long as I can remember.

My house well is 60' deep with 30' of 6" PVC and another 30' of perforated PVC for casing.

The actual bit on the drilling rig was (I'm guessing) 12". The casing was lowered into the hole and kept roughly centered by taping 2x4's around the outside of the casing every 10' or so. Then pea gravel was used to fill in around the casing.

It's been there for over 40 years and I'm on my second submersible pump.

I also have an irrigation well that goes down to 90' with some kind of 18" composite casing. It will pump 900 gal. a minute all week long if needed with an electric 30hp vertical turbine pump.
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Old 05-26-2020, 08:02 PM
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Today they arrived at 9 am, and dropped the string and started drilling. As soon as they went 10 ft further into the shale, they broke through into the sandstone and the water started coming up. The sandstone drilling was as hard as the shale at first, but by the time they were mostly through the first 20 ft rod, the drilling really speeded up, and the sandstone was coarse coming up. They said this was the water zone. They drilled about 60 ft into the sandstone. The bottom 20 ft is just for a mud sump. Then they flushed the well with compressed air to remove cuttings and crap, and uncoupled the drill and lowered a tape measure with a sensor on the end after one minute. The driller calculated out 125 gallon/minute flow. Then they waited a few minutes for the static test and determined that the water had stopped rising at 24 ft from surface.
Then they started putting down the plastic liner.
The normal process is to have the bottom capped off, and the first 20 ft is the mud sump. The next 20 ft is drilled full of holes. I thought re the post above that a stainless steel screen would be used, but drilling holes is fine. Then they put the plastic pipe up to the bottom of the steel and there is a rubber seal called a shale trap to seal the two. I told them to put the plastic pipe up to above the static water line. That way if the steel ever fails, the plastic liner will still maintain the well integrity.
That added $350 to the cost, no big deal. Total bill was $7600 with tax.
Total depth was 160 ft.
The water hardness test showed 2 grains hardness, and I witnessed it, and the bill said 4 grains...no idea why.

1. the water truck
2. we hit water
3. Plastic pipe
4. flushing the well
5. getting ready for the flow test
6. flow test
7. the drill bit
8,9. installing the plastic pipe
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Gerry
You got freedom of speech, if you don't say too much.
Aaron Neville.

The virtue is always a cover for the sin. That's the key to understanding the modern left. Whatever they're accusing you of doing, they are doing themselves but more enthusiastically. And that's definitely the story of Justin Trudeau. Tucker Carlson

Last edited by Ironman; 05-26-2020 at 09:17 PM.
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