Shop Floor Talk  

Go Back   Shop Floor Talk > Welding and Metalworking Forums > Fabrication

SFT Search:   
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 11-12-2012, 06:15 PM
H80N's Avatar
H80N H80N is offline
That Man Behind The Curtain
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NE Pa
Posts: 5,180
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattbob View Post
Sorry about that. That's a good idea, I hadn't seen that before. Here is the new post, I'll see about deleting the previous.


I had seen those Torchmates. That would be sweet. I'm just starting up, and it would be tough to swing. They are AWESOME though.

A fellow guitarmaker! Great! It's good to get a specific perspective. I could see making the template idea work... but wanted some more knowledgeable opinions on if that was a viable idea.

That being said, if anyone knows someone who has a plasma CNC and would like work. PM me. I'll look to see in the other sections of the forum to see if there is an appropriate thread. They are proving more difficult to find in Michigan than laser or waterjet places.
The part I see causing some difficulty are the 'F' holes in the upper bout. Does anyone have experience cutting this kind of detail by plasma with a template?

My thinking is if I could get a decent (not awesome, not junk) plasma cutter for $400, it would probably be 10-15 guitars before I would decide I was able to get a Torchmate. At $120/set with laser I'd be paying around $1800 to have them cut. Sure, I could adjust my prices to make up the difference, but I'm just starting and don't have the 'authority' yet.
Think the handheld plasma & template idea is a dead end and will only serve to drive you nuts with trying to file and grind the F holes somewhere near symetrical and visually attractive....let alone maintaining any tolerances for final part fitup.. kinda like carving a violin with a chainsaw... would expect the quality to be nowhere near your standards....

there are lots of Plasmacams out there... unfortunately mine is still apart...

But IRONMAN has one and it sounds like he is quite skilled with it... maybe you two could work something out that is mutually beneficial.. (the skill of the operator matters as much as the quality of machine)

likely a few more in the group as well....

BTW... Enjoyed your YouTube Video..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXFEu424hks

Also.. unrelated construction question:

Are you using a planishing hammer or english wheel to develop a little crown on your panels??
__________________
.
.

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain..


The more you Know, The Better you Know, How little you Know (old Estonian saying)

Last edited by H80N; 11-12-2012 at 07:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-12-2012, 07:18 PM
Mattbob Mattbob is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Bay City, MI
Posts: 56
Default

That's a great tip, thanks. I have had two plasma CNC places think they could do it and then couldn't do the thin stock. I was confused why-I could understand if it was too thick. But your 'operator is just as important' makes sense.

And thanks for the lead.

There is actually a piece inside called the sound well that the speaker-cone looking resonator sits on. I make a very slight arch with that and then solder it in place, that holds the top in an arch. That's how acoustic guitars are arched. The braces on the inside are sanded at a radius and then glued to the plates. There are supports that go from this sound well to the back, and that's what supports the back.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-12-2012, 07:34 PM
H80N's Avatar
H80N H80N is offline
That Man Behind The Curtain
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NE Pa
Posts: 5,180
Default

Matt

Did a little research trying to understand your construction proces....

Found your outline on the RESO forum... very COOL...

http://www.resohangout.com/topic/29136

sometime in the future you might consider building an experimental one....crowning the panels, TIG welding instead of silver solder.... Then bead/sand blasting the body to stress relieve and work harden the steel.... would expect that process to elevate the resonant freq of the body and give purer tone without strange harmonics...

just some odd thoughts...
__________________
.
.

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain..


The more you Know, The Better you Know, How little you Know (old Estonian saying)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-12-2012, 07:48 PM
Mattbob Mattbob is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Bay City, MI
Posts: 56
Default

That's a great idea. I've been looking around for some higher carbon steel to see what the hardness does to tone.

I think you got to the heart of most online guitar tone discussion - one man's strange is another man's 'awesome' with luthiers right smack in the middle.

It's been my experience its best for guitar makers to offer 'different', and work hardening might certainly be a way. Might give a sweet finish too.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-12-2012, 07:56 PM
H80N's Avatar
H80N H80N is offline
That Man Behind The Curtain
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NE Pa
Posts: 5,180
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattbob View Post
That's a great idea. I've been looking around for some higher carbon steel to see what the hardness does to tone.

I think you got to the heart of most online guitar tone discussion - one man's strange is another man's 'awesome' with luthiers right smack in the middle.

It's been my experience its best for guitar makers to offer 'different', and work hardening might certainly be a way. Might give a sweet finish too.
The heat from silver soldering or welding will anneal the metal in the HAZ... reorganizing the molecules in a random order and destroying the alignment of the grain.... Thus when struck.... it will "THUNK" rather than "RING"... blasting should help restore some of the homogeneity to the body....

Strange finish idea: Use cold gun blue... then wax it with Butchers Diamond paste carnuba.... should wear through in interesting ways and patinate from body oils and corrosive sweat...
In time.. the finish should look like a well worn firearm.....
__________________
.
.

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain..


The more you Know, The Better you Know, How little you Know (old Estonian saying)

Last edited by H80N; 11-12-2012 at 08:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-12-2012, 09:01 PM
H80N's Avatar
H80N H80N is offline
That Man Behind The Curtain
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NE Pa
Posts: 5,180
Default

Matt

Sorry... this is the link that I meant to post earlier...

it really illustrates your construction process very well...

http://www.resohangout.com/topic/30050

here on SFT... we REALLY like pics...
__________________
.
.

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain..


The more you Know, The Better you Know, How little you Know (old Estonian saying)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-12-2012, 09:09 PM
tigman250's Avatar
tigman250 tigman250 is offline
The Right Stuff
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,790
Send a message via AIM to tigman250 Send a message via MSN to tigman250
Default

I don't think plasma is the way to go, even if you could get the accuracy you need I think the cleanup would be too tedious to make it worth it. I am in Bad Axe (abour 1.5 hours north of you) and would happily cut one out for you to see if the process will work for you.
__________________
The one that dies with the most tools wins

If it's worth having, it's worth working for

I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-12-2012, 09:23 PM
H80N's Avatar
H80N H80N is offline
That Man Behind The Curtain
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NE Pa
Posts: 5,180
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigman250 View Post
I don't think plasma is the way to go, even if you could get the accuracy you need I think the cleanup would be too tedious to make it worth it. I am in Bad Axe (abour 1.5 hours north of you) and would happily cut one out for you to see if the process will work for you.
Tigman...

I beg to differ... you must be looking at cuts made with worn out consumables and wet air.. they tend to be slaggy with uneven kerf...

But with dry air, good consumables, proper settings and travel speed....
the cuts can be clean and beautiful...
here is a repost of the Plasmacam demo.. to give you a better idea...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5YEurZP2V8

__________________
.
.

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain..


The more you Know, The Better you Know, How little you Know (old Estonian saying)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-12-2012, 09:51 PM
Mattbob Mattbob is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Bay City, MI
Posts: 56
Default

I should have had more pictures of the others, because those (as is the next) all blued along with the the butcher's wax. I like metal, and it's been great learning about all the knowledge involved with working it. All the machines, finishing techniques, etching, engraving, milling... it will be awesome.

Is there a non plasma way of doing this? A sort of pin router for steel? Any ideas?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	fullfrontjpg.jpg
Views:	98
Size:	70.0 KB
ID:	97720  
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-12-2012, 10:17 PM
mister honey's Avatar
mister honey mister honey is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: eastern blowville heights, ohio
Posts: 43
Default

Have you researched cutting out your components on a waterjet?

Just think "wet" plasma cutter!

Mike
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Web Search:

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.