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  #11  
Old 12-28-2023, 07:43 PM
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One other thing I wish we had done, was to put in hot water pex in the floor. We were planning it, but decided against it for cost of install, and timing.

30 years later, I would love to have a water heater keeping the floor at 40-50 degrees, and my tools would not sweat so much and rust in the spring and fall.

We built the pole barn on a tight budget, but think 20-30 years down the road. A bit of extra planning, and efficiently will pay big dividends down the road. I’m now thinking of my retirement days, and think how much it will cost me to heat the shop when I will be in a tight retirement budget. If I want to work in it all the time, I’m going to want to be comfortable, but that comes with a cost too.


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  #12  
Old 12-28-2023, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimpyrobb View Post
...I plan on going as high as possible...
Yup, go as high as you can and build a mezzanine floor along one wall or across one end. Adds a lot of extra space. Can be done on the QT after all the inspections are done.

And I would agree with some of the others; forget about the drive-thru. You'll be giving up a lot of valuable wall space...
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  #13  
Old 12-29-2023, 12:05 AM
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The inside will be 14' walls which puts the roof peak at 18'. Code says 18' is the max I can go.
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  #14  
Old 12-29-2023, 10:36 AM
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Gotta agree on the setback for the doors if you do the drive-through. We have a single garage door in back, a double in the front. They are both set about 16" from the end wall. It made sense for Dad at the time to build it that way as it lined up directly with the driveway, but it has more disadvantages than it's worth. The back door hasn't been opened in 3 years now due to the neighborhood issues, and now I've got so much shit piled up in front of it that I can't even get back to the door at all.

Being able to open it up was always nice though, and really helped with the airflow. My "great life plan" is to one day fence off the area behind the back door onto the alley so I can open it regularly again. I don't ever plan to have it where we can drive through again.
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  #15  
Old 12-29-2023, 10:33 PM
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I have built & helped build a few shops. Some input may apply to you some may not. Do with it as you wish, sorry for the long post. I have found if you are polite and ask reasonable/logical questions (without implicating yourself). You can get some very usedul info from your AHJ or inspector.
Doors- I have a drive through design and use it a lot. But I also work on big stuff. For my use it is handy to drive a semi in for repairs, or to use a forklift or gantry crane to unload steel and drive straight out. If you must back into a door while negotiating a turn with a trailer (such is the case at both ends of my shop) it’s very much preferred to drive forward into the shop vs backing in and risking hitting the doorway. If you’re making a lot of smoke welding the cross ventilation is great. Definitely space the doors at least 4’ off the side wall to allow you to put pallet racks on that wall.
Heat- A 30x40 is not a real big shop from a HVAC standpoint, I’m not sure there’s much savings to be had by zoning off a small area vs heating the whole shop especially if you’re heating it only when in use. If you are not going to keep it a constant temperature all winter then radiant floor heat is not for you. If you’re going to turn it on/off or up and down as needed then go with a forced air furnace. I have two insulated shops within 50’ of eachother, one has 2” r10 foam board insulation and vapor barrier under the slab the other has only gravel under the slab. The insulated slab shop never sweats in spring, the other shop is like a swamp all spring. But insulation board is not cheap. Iirc $4000 just to bury it under concrete. A/C is real nice in summer too.
Water and drains- This is where it gets to be real tricky. I had many long conversations with my state plumbing inspector on these topics. The following info is from those conversations, none of it is merely my opinion unless stated otherwise. In the eyes of the law there’s no such thing as “it’s just runoff/ snow melt from a vehicle” all floor drain discharge from a garage or shop is considered contaminated. Since you stated you have township limitations I assume this is a permitted project with inspections. In 1972 the federal epa passed the clean water act. Part of this act is to protect drinking water/ground water in aquifers, and streams from contamination. Part of that is septic and floor drain runoff regs. For a increasingly large part of the country (counties, townships, villages, cities, towns) the days of running a floor drain to a dry well, sunlight, or wherever are long gone, regardless of zoning. Also you can’t tie it into a septic. I ran mine ultimately into a 1000g holding tank and get it pumped out periodically. Can you do it the old fashioned way on the down low? I’m sure you can, I know it can be done. Im not saying there’s “drain police” going around looking for violations. From what I was told where this can come back to bite you is when you sell the property. Most people/ (buyers realtor or lawyer) know if there’s a floor drain to have soil samples done. If there’s soil contamination found as a result of the floor drain/septic runoff you’re on the hook for fines, cleanup, and bringing it to current code even after you have sold the property. More or less like what happened to old gas stations that had old steel tanks that leaked and had been sold off rather than fix the issue. The old station owner or company was fined and had to pay for remediation. Fresh water can be roughed in to pass a rough in plumbing inspection, but if it’s hooked up you need a drain/ septic of some sort for a full plumbing inspection to pass. Also for plumbing inspection install a anti backflow on the water supply to keep the well from becoming contaminated, I got dinged on that one.
Please don’t get me wrong I’m not at all in favor of govt. overeach, I see no problems with the old ways in most cases, but I have also seen the benefits of some of these regulations in the form of cleaner streams etc compared to the 1960’s and 70’s. I’m only passing along what I was told and my experience.
Design- When I put a floor drain in my last shop I designated one bay only as a wash bay. It has one simple 4” round drain inlet, the floor of that wash bay is sloped to the drain, the rest of the shop has a flat floor. The drain discharge goes to a triple trap grease separator then to a holding tank. The grease separator eliminated the holding tank water from being considered a contaminated material so pumping it is much cheaper. I keep the issues with dealing with trench drains to a bare minimum and the washing mess is in only one area of the shop. As of when I last had an inspection several years ago they said there’s no regulations on runoff if the floor slopes to the door and I squeegee the water out the door. Which seemed odd but I wasn’t going to argue. It would also make a mess if my driveway espescally in winter.
Another thought, considering the size of your building. If it’s only 30’ wide I wonder if you could do 16’ walls and still have a 18’ peak. That would guve you a lot more headroom up on a mezzanine. If you do a mezzanine and have support posts, you need footers under those posts not just a flat slab.
I truly hope this long post was helpful. Good luck on the shop build.
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Last edited by Ggg; 12-29-2023 at 10:49 PM. Reason: Grammar
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  #16  
Old 12-30-2023, 06:28 PM
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Well the deposit has been made. Now I have to figure out exactly where I want it, get the approval and find a concrete contractor quick! I'd like it as close as possible(to the house) so I don't have to run miles of wire to get power to it. I plan on using my genset for now as I have to upgrade the house power too, I'd like to do it all at once. It needs to be 10ft off the property line for code, I'm thinking 20 to 25 so I could potentially put another lean-to on. I am not planning on having running water and drains so that isn't a concern. If I put pex in the slab(to heat it), shouldn't I insulate it? I'm not sure I want that expense and I've heard good things about radiant heaters. I currently own a production waste oil heater, a Modine natural gas forced air heater, and I could always make a wood burner or pellet stove. Honestly I only plan on sectioning off an area/room for the machine tools to live to keep them from sweating. I think that might be the under if I build a mezzanine.
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  #17  
Old 12-30-2023, 06:59 PM
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Check insurance most say no go on a garage as it is not tended all the time .For wood heat

Last edited by midmosandblasting; 12-30-2023 at 06:59 PM. Reason: added for wood heat
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  #18  
Old 12-31-2023, 08:16 AM
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Plan on a leantoo on both sides in the future. Not saying you need it now, or will ever do it, but having the option is nice to have in the future. You never know what the future will bring.


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  #19  
Old 12-31-2023, 02:55 PM
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Leantoos need to be at least 12’ wide IMO, as a full size vehicle etc is about 8’, plus room to sneak around it. I had one that was right at 8’, ended up using it for firewood storage, would have been much nicer with 3-4’ more width.


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  #20  
Old 01-01-2024, 03:26 PM
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The biggest problem is the wife doesn't want it intruding into the yard so much. Our property is longer than it is wide. It'll probably get another lean-to on the back where the 2nd garage door was eliminated. I'll probably park my trailers on the 10ft side so they are out of view.
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