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  #11  
Old 07-06-2023, 10:50 AM
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Shade Tree Welder Shade Tree Welder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Shade View Post
...It is $150 bucks more than the miller but includes the 250amp spoolgun where the 30A is only 200A (not really even worth bringing up for what I do, but it is what it is)...
Something to keep in mind. Duty cycle, is based on a 10 minute cycle. So if
your equipment says 50% duty cycle. That means you can weld 5 minutes out
of every 10 minutes, also Miller does all this testing at 40°C.

The spec on the Spoolmatic 30A is 200 amps at 100% duty cycle with argon
gas. Do not confuse that as a 200A max. So you can run the gun at higher amps
you just cannot do at 100% duty cycle. I have run mine at 300 amps, but I
was easily under 50% duty cycle and had no issues. As I was setting up and
tacking, measuring, wire brushing, etc.

Seems like you have a good understanding of the options you have in front of you.
Now you just have to decide on how much you are willing to spend for what you
want.
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  #12  
Old 07-06-2023, 01:39 PM
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Just like a new car, they lose money when you drive them off the lot.
In the Daytona area as seen on FBM. FYI...
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TA Arcmaster 185 w/tig/stick kit
MillerMatic 252 w/3rd gen 30A
MM140 w/o AS, w/CO2
Hobart (Miller) 625 plasma
Hobart 250ci plasma
Victor O/A (always ready, but bored)
HF 80 lunchbox w/tig
45ACP Black Talons for those stubborn jobs...
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  #13  
Old 07-06-2023, 01:54 PM
JBFab JBFab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Shade View Post
I did a bit more tire kicking.

The 255 with a 175A push pull gun is about $6900 (bakersgas) which I think is my upper limit. The higher amp guns really boost the price. I didn't really start this line of thought with a budget in mind but I definitely can't swing 10K+ right now for the 350 class machines. Honestly I was expecting to get a gun and be done for about $1500 before I really looked anything up.

The 255 is the clear winner in this price class as far as output and features.
Higher overall amps, higher duty cycle, pulse, and 150lbs or more less than either the MM252 or PM256. Impressive machine. I kinda want one even if it is blue

The rub for me is there is no dual gun option. I love the idea of a push pull gun, until I want to switch to aluminum for a 10 minute job and have to thread/unthread 25ft of wire. That was the only nice thing about my cheap spoolgun is it fit both of my machines and I could always have one in the shop for aluminum without spending 20 min prepping for a 5 minute job. The 210 never really did any steel unless I had it out on a job. I could buy the 255 and keep my 216 for steel but I'm working out of a 2 car garage and space is a premium, not to mention the 255 would sit a lot.


If I limit myself to dual gun machines in my budget I seem to be back to choosing between the miller 252 and the lincoln 256. Neither has pulse, they are similar weight (stuck in the shop) machines, but the lincoln edges out the miller a bit on duty cycle. It also has the same diamond arc technology as my old 216 so I assume the arc will be similar to what I have come to expect. It is $150 bucks more than the miller but includes the 250amp spoolgun where the 30A is only 200A (not really even worth bringing up for what I do, but it is what it is)

So that is where I'm at at the moment. Mostly thinking out loud. I still haven't written off buying the mid level gun and adapter kit for my 216, but in the back of my head I am thinking machines are only going to get more expensive as time goes on and at some time I will have to buy one regardless.
Another option for you if you went the 255 route. You could ditch the push/pull gun and go with the spoolmatic 30A with a 30' lead. This drops your price about 1500 and saves you from having to spool your aluminum wire up when switching to steel. This is essentially what I have with my Hobart, and I don't find it to be too much of a bother. Duty cycle on the 30A is 200A at 100%


A push pull gun is certainly superior, but it's certainly a lot of pennies if you don't use it all that often. Like anything there are pros and cons to either.
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  #14  
Old 07-06-2023, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by JBFab View Post
Another option for you if you went the 255 route. You could ditch the push/pull gun and go with the spoolmatic 30A with a 30' lead. This drops your price about 1500 and saves you from having to spool your aluminum wire up when switching to steel. This is essentially what I have with my Hobart, and I don't find it to be too much of a bother. Duty cycle on the 30A is 200A at 100%


A push pull gun is certainly superior, but it's certainly a lot of pennies if you don't use it all that often. Like anything there are pros and cons to either.
I am trying to figure out if keeping a spoolgun mounted on the 255 is an option. I'm finding it very strange that not one single sales ad I have found has an option for getting it with a dual cylinder cart and a spoolgun. If I can run it as a dual gun set up and not have to take a bunch of shit apart every time I will more than likely buy a 255.

I stopped at Matheson Gas today to talk about my options and the only guy in the store was a little bit shell shocked that someone would come in off the street to buy either of these machines and said the best he could do would be to show me a sales brochure. It did not answer any of my questions.
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  #15  
Old 07-06-2023, 09:40 PM
JBFab JBFab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Shade View Post
I am trying to figure out if keeping a spoolgun mounted on the 255 is an option. I'm finding it very strange that not one single sales ad I have found has an option for getting it with a dual cylinder cart and a spoolgun. If I can run it as a dual gun set up and not have to take a bunch of shit apart every time I will more than likely buy a 255.



I stopped at Matheson Gas today to talk about my options and the only guy in the store was a little bit shell shocked that someone would come in off the street to buy either of these machines and said the best he could do would be to show me a sales brochure. It did not answer any of my questions.
You can't keep it hooked up, but un hooking the gun is just that, plug and play. When you switch from steel to aluminum you would need to pull the wire out of the liner, and then just swap guns and gas.

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  #16  
Old 07-06-2023, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade Tree Welder View Post
Something to keep in mind. Duty cycle, is based on a 10 minute cycle. So if
your equipment says 50% duty cycle. That means you can weld 5 minutes out
of every 10 minutes, also Miller does all this testing at 40°C.

The spec on the Spoolmatic 30A is 200 amps at 100% duty cycle with argon
gas. Do not confuse that as a 200A max. So you can run the gun at higher amps
you just cannot do at 100% duty cycle. I have run mine at 300 amps, but I
was easily under 50% duty cycle and had no issues. As I was setting up and
tacking, measuring, wire brushing, etc.

Seems like you have a good understanding of the options you have in front of you.
Now you just have to decide on how much you are willing to spend for what you
want.
Yep, that is how I understood duty cycle on the guns. Giving that point to the lincoln is just nit picking, but I'm mainly looking at that as a way to gauge consumable life. The contact tips on my 130 amp gun live a very short life when welding 1/8 or thicker aluminum.

Going to have to email miller about whether or not you can do a dual tank/dual gun option on the 255 and then I will be able to make my mind up.
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  #17  
Old 07-06-2023, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBFab View Post
You can't keep it hooked up, but un hooking the gun is just that, plug and play. When you switch from steel to aluminum you would need to pull the wire out of the liner, and then just swap guns and gas.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk
Pretty sure on the lincoln 256 the spoolgun mounts on the rear of the machine with its own gas valve, and the regular mig gun can stay mounted at all times. I would prefer this option if available as I hate taking 15 minutes to switch guns to do 2 minutes of welding. I get some random shit in the shop that you can never plan around and thats why I was keeping the 210 set for aluminum and the 216 for steel. If I spend $6500 bucks I'd like to use it for both though
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  #18  
Old 07-06-2023, 10:12 PM
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I found a Q and A section on the miller website and it does say that you can leave both guns mounted and use the gun on demand function to switch between the two with the 255.
The lincoln actually senses which trigger you pull and runs accordingly. It sounds like the miller does too, and if that is the case I will probably be buying my first blue welder.
Still have to figure out the dual cylinder cart and what not, but I can make a cart if I have to.
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  #19  
Old 07-06-2023, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Shade View Post
I found a Q and A section on the miller website and it does say that you can leave both guns mounted and use the gun on demand function to switch between the two with the 255.
The lincoln actually senses which trigger you pull and runs accordingly. It sounds like the miller does too, and if that is the case I will probably be buying my first blue welder.
Still have to figure out the dual cylinder cart and what not, but I can make a cart if I have to.
You can download the manuals from Miller's website prior to buying.
https://www.millerwelds.com/files/ow...79299F_MIL.pdf
Chapter 5.


Miller's website.
https://www.millerwelds.com/-/media/...5--english.pdf
Page 3 shows the twin cylinder running gear.
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Last edited by Shade Tree Welder; 07-06-2023 at 11:28 PM.
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  #20  
Old 07-07-2023, 10:03 AM
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I have very little time on anything but my MM210 transformer machine, but after playing with Ron's 350P, you definitely want a machine with pulse. And even though I have a red tig machine (local deal), I would go all blue, all the time.
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