Shop Floor Talk  

Go Back   Shop Floor Talk > Welding and Metalworking Forums > Fabrication

SFT Search:   
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-31-2013, 10:51 AM
Ironman's Avatar
Ironman Ironman is offline
Iron Modification Investigator
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Warburg, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 13,800
Default Kingpin removal

I have this "thing" to fix, it is very difficult to steer, and the drawbar can push the whole wagon sideways before the wheels turn. And this is with no load on it.

I spent an hour pumping grease into the thing, and to no avail. I think the kingpins have to be removed and the thrust bearings replaced. I have done this before with a torch, but I don't think that method is acceptable this time. I have considered replacing the whole front axle...easy to do, but the double drop is an issue. I have an ordinary axle here without the double drop, that would mean I would need to cabbage up a whole new steering/drawbar system...and I'd rather not.

My theory is, you remove the keeper bolt from the center of the kingpin and press it out with a portapower. Does it come out the top or the bottom?
What's the best way?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC00308.jpg
Views:	470
Size:	102.0 KB
ID:	109041   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC00306.jpg
Views:	532
Size:	99.3 KB
ID:	109042   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC00305.jpg
Views:	466
Size:	100.3 KB
ID:	109043  
__________________
Gerry
You got freedom of speech, if you don't say too much.
Aaron Neville.

The virtue is always a cover for the sin. That's the key to understanding the modern left. Whatever they're accusing you of doing, they are doing themselves but more enthusiastically. And that's definitely the story of Justin Trudeau. Tucker Carlson
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-31-2013, 11:18 AM
Scotts's Avatar
Scotts Scotts is offline
Stuff, Just stuff
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Wichita Kansas
Posts: 5,163
Default

Gerry,

I have never done anything to something like this. However, I would take the steering linkage apart and see if 1 or both of these are froze up. It might be a real revelation to find that the steering linkage was to blame instead of a kingpin? You may have done this already. If the kingpin was froze and the machine still tried to steer would it not bend the steering linkage up?

I don't have a clue how it comes apart. I am sure all of you can tell now.

Just a thought.

Scott
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-31-2013, 11:19 AM
FabberMcGee FabberMcGee is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 794
Default

Gerry, the few times I've had to press out a kingpin, I don't think 10 tons would have done it. I cut the pin and put the axle in a press. There used to be big forged c- clamp looking presses for doing it on the truck, but I haven't seen one in 30 years.

I liked Neil's idea of welding a big nut to the pin and spinning it with a 3/4 impact. I don't think it will matter if you go up or down after the lock bolt is out. There's never anything fun about frozen king pins. Good luck.
__________________
"The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it."

“The thing about quotes on the internet is you cannot confirm their validity” Abraham Lincoln
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-31-2013, 11:24 AM
SmokinDodge's Avatar
SmokinDodge SmokinDodge is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 5,869
Default

Gerry there can be two locking pins on some kp's and a lot only have one. Get the verticals really clean so you can find all the locking pins and also to tell which way they go. Don't laugh, axles can get so dirty and greasy on first inspection you think it only had one lock pin. Not funny when you find another locking pin after twenty minutes of swinging a twenty pound sledge.

The pins taper so they can wedge into the KP and sometimes they get so tight you have to drill them out. Don't try to torch them out, the pins are long enough the torch tip would melt before the pin and now you have a really hard layer of pin to rub drill bits on.

Remove the top and bottom cap and withdraw the kingpin.

Give the kingpin a few good whacks with a good hammer and it might just slide out. You never know. I give it three hits and if I don't have any movement I get the 20 pounder and start whaling. A small hammer will mushroom the top, a big one will get the pin out. Punches with 4 foot handles become mandatory at this point.

I don't know if a porta power would work, it seems the impact does most of the work. But it would sure be nice if it did. I bought a gas powered jackhammer for track pins and king pins and fortunately haven't had to use it.

Sent from my iPhone using SFT
__________________
The guy that said money can't buy happiness never bought a tank of fuel for a turbo diesel.............
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-31-2013, 12:09 PM
LKeithR's Avatar
LKeithR LKeithR is offline
Hey...wait...is there a prize?
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Langley, B.C.
Posts: 5,066
Default

It's been a while since I did any kingpins, let alone bigger ones, but I think Dodge has pretty much nailed it. I'd say that cutting one out with the hot wrench is your last resort because it creates a whole set of different problems. On the other hand, getting some heat into the axle boss can really help. Heat the whole boss till it's a dull cherry red but stop every so often to give the top of the kingpin a few gentle taps with a hammer--you're not trying to move it, just break it loose. Once it's up to temp let it cool completely before trying to drive the kingpin out. Sometimes a couple cycles of hot/cold is all it takes to break the bond between the axle and the kingpin.

It takes a big press to move those things--those big C-frame clamp/presses worked because you screwed 'em up as tight as you could with a rattle gun and if nothing moved you gave the head of the bolt a couple good whacks with a hammer to shock things loose. Rinse and repeat as necessary. In my experience there's usually no easy way to do it--you just get lucky once in a while...`

A Google search for "King Pin Press" yields a gazillion ideas if you wanted to concoct something...
__________________
Keith

Measure twice and cut once...or...wait, was that the other way around?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-31-2013, 12:58 PM
MarkBall2's Avatar
MarkBall2 MarkBall2 is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Yuma AZ
Posts: 2,571
Send a message via Yahoo to MarkBall2
Default

If I remember right Ford's double I beam king pins came out the top.

With caps on both ends, I'm betting it's not tapered, just rides on tapered roller bearings. I bet it's froze on the beam & not the spindle though. Gonna be tough to get out any way you go.
__________________
Mark

I haven't always been a nurse..........

Hobart Handler 175
Century AC 230 amp stick welder
Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG
Oxy/Acetylene set
Hand/Power tools
Clark 4x6 Bandsaw
Harbor Freight Tubing Roller
Craftsman 12 x 36 lathe
New to me Enco GL-30B Mill/Drill Thank you 1800Miner
Papa Lion's Gate Build

I don't do nuttin half azzed. I phawk it up completely, given half a chance.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-31-2013, 01:43 PM
Caliber's Avatar
Caliber Caliber is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sunny Bend Oregon
Posts: 1,320
Default

I wouldn't punch out the King pins till the axle was ID'd, you might not find pins or bushings for it. I'd pull the zerks, warm up the bushings to get any dried out grease out. Than soak it with penetrating oil, than try to grease it. Sometimes taking the weight off the spindle allows grease to squeeze in.
The tapered king pins have a cap that screws into the spindle, it's how pre-load is set. Mack uses them very often. I've always punched the straight pins out the bottom, like dodge says a large punch with a 4' handle and 50 lbs sledge helps knock them loose.
__________________
"Government is not the solution, it is the problem!" RIP Ronnie,,,
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-31-2013, 02:14 PM
milomilo's Avatar
milomilo milomilo is offline
Auction Addict
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wheatland, Wyoming
Posts: 15,170
Default

I replaced some on an old Ford P.U years ago, and they came out fairly easy from the top, as I recall. I used a hydraulic jack and they pushed right out. Mine were worn out so maybe that made it easier. They had a cross bolt I think.
__________________
Chris

Liberty has never come from Government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of it. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it.
Woodrow Wilson
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-31-2013, 02:39 PM
monckywrench's Avatar
monckywrench monckywrench is offline
trust but verify
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Elsewhere
Posts: 4,330
Default

You could try pumping hydraulic fluid or penetrant into it since grease is designed to lubricate rather than penetrate.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-31-2013, 04:13 PM
SmokinDodge's Avatar
SmokinDodge SmokinDodge is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 5,869
Default

Caliber where the hell do you get a 50 # sledge hammer? I need two, one to use and for back up when I wear #1 out.

I wouldn't fart around with penetrating oil on this. If the corrosion is bad enough to lock the steering it is to the point that only physically cleaning the joint will fix it.

It's a hay wagon or something, won't even need new parts, just what parts it has cleaned, greased and reassembled.

Sent from my iPhone using SFT
__________________
The guy that said money can't buy happiness never bought a tank of fuel for a turbo diesel.............
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Web Search:

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.