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Old 09-18-2018, 03:07 PM
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Default SYOZ 25 vs ER32/ER40 Collet Systems

Back in the early days, before I knew anything about buying tooling, not that I know a lot now, I wanted a quick change collet system for th milling machines. I found a set offered by Grizzly, the now discontinued #T10068 collet set, the collet system was the EOC/SYOZ 25 chuck and matching collets. At the time they were bought, they were relatively inexpensive, with the chuck and 16 collets (1/8” - 1”), for about $150. Shortly after I bought them, the set dropped to 8 collets and went up to about $250, the same set as the original, was offered, label as South Bend, for close to $400.

The collet system has been great, no end mill slippage, easy to use and very well made. The issue is collet prices, individual collet are readily available, in both fractional and metric sizes, in the $25 - $30/ea price range. I actually have 3 of these systems, one on the Jet JVM-836, one on the Infamous Franken-Mill, both with R8 shanks and a set for the Jet 14x40 lathe, with a MT#3 shank.

When I bought the Rockwell #21-100, vertical milling machine (AKA Rocky), I wanted a similar system, but held off because of the ever escalating prices, from Grizzly. Then I looked into a ER collet chuck and collet system. Due to the overall size of the Rockwell, with no intent to run real big end mills and the access to larger mills, I settled on a ER32 collet chuck and collet system. I ordered a R8 x ER32 collet chuck, from LMS and bought some fractional and metric, ER32 collets from BangGood. The system has been great, again everything I wanted in a collet chuck/collet system.

Here is my dilemma, I need a few replacement collets and also want a few metric sized collets. For the price I had in the check out basket, I could almost buy a complete ER40 collet system, with collets and ER40 collets are dirt cheap compared to SYOZ 25 collets. So do I buy the SYOZ 25 collets and move on, maybe have this issue again in a few years or do I buy ER40 collet system, with collets, filling a box with unused tooling and start the shop switch over to ER based operation in the whole shop.

Or another option, instead of the ER40 collet system on the 2 bigger mills and a ER32 system on the small mill, or do I just go to a ER32 based shop, on all of the mills. Which would limit me to 3/4” shanked tooling, most of what I do is done with either 1/2” or 5/8” end mills (on the larger projects), rarely using 3/4” end mills. I really don’t have the rigidity or the hp to run bigger end mills, as all of my mills, while they are knee mills, are on the smaller end of scale of floor standing knee mills.

The remaining fact is that I do also have multiple sets of R8 collets, that I rarely use. I also primarily use carbide end mills, as I have a huge inventory (I bought hundreds of them at about $3 per pound) and had no issues with end mill slippage. Because of the shoulder issues, which make drawbar manipulation painful, the ability to tighten/loosen the collet nut and and hold the collet body, at the same level height, at mid chest high, is a great benefit. So a similar collet system to the ER or SYOZ type collets is the way I want t go, but which way??
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Old 09-18-2018, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by platypus20 View Post
...So a similar collet system to the ER or SYOZ type collets is the way I want t go, but which way??
Till now I have never heard of SYOZ collets so I'm assuming that's a brand name. What are the specs for the collets? Are they TG100s by any chance? Or could they be OZ 25s?

I think I'd stick with the ER series anyway--they are a lot more common...
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Old 09-18-2018, 09:50 PM
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I have a set of SYOZ 25 collets and have had no problems, but some what expensive to replace
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Old 09-19-2018, 04:13 AM
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Yep never heard of the SYOZ.

Side question
do they make a bolt-on ER40 collet chuck for the lathe?
https://littlemachineshop.com/produc...ProductID=5452


I guess I would side with at least one ER40 set.
https://littlemachineshop.com/produc...ucts&term=er40
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Last edited by GWIZ; 09-19-2018 at 04:23 AM.
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Old 09-19-2018, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by LKeithR View Post
Till now I have never heard of SYOZ collets so I'm assuming that's a brand name. What are the specs for the collets? Are they TG100s by any chance? Or could they be OZ 25s?

I think I'd stick with the ER series anyway--they are a lot more common...
Keith,

they are listed as SYOZ 25, OZ 25 or EOC 25, they are based on the Din #6833 spec, they work great, but individual collets are big time expensive. I’m leaning towards going to ER 32 on all of the machines, standardize the shop.
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Old 09-19-2018, 06:58 AM
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I can see having a mix of the 2 systems.

each mill can easily have it's own system.

if the syoz system works, and you have enough tooling
to keep you happy (on the smaller mills) leave them as is.
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Old 09-19-2018, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
I can see having a mix of the 2 systems.

each mill can easily have it's own system.

if the syoz system works, and you have enough tooling
to keep you happy (on the smaller mills) leave them as is.
Doug,

In a recent plant closing clean out, I got a mass of 6, 8, 10 and 12 mm carbide and HSS end mills, so 2 each of the metric collets and 2 of the 1/2” and 1 of the 1/4” collets, to replace a couple or worn ones and one damaged one.

7 collets at about $30 each plus tax and shipping, is pushing $240 - $250, for that I can just about buy a fractional ER32 set (collet chuck and collets) and a set of metric collets.

So do I keep the old system going, or do I switch to a more readily common system, for roughly the same amount of money.
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Old 09-19-2018, 10:13 AM
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Jack

Looks to me like a switch would provide you long term savings if you run into this again, and you will. If your spending the same amount of money to do a few or retrofit to new just change it now.

Scott
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Old 09-19-2018, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by platypus20 View Post
Doug,

In a recent plant closing clean out, I got a mass of 6, 8, 10 and 12 mm carbide and HSS end mills, so 2 each of the metric collets and 2 of the 1/2” and 1 of the 1/4” collets, to replace a couple or worn ones and one damaged one.

7 collets at about $30 each plus tax and shipping, is pushing $240 - $250, for that I can just about buy a fractional ER32 set (collet chuck and collets) and a set of metric collets.

So do I keep the old system going, or do I switch to a more readily common system, for roughly the same amount of money.
Now I see what you mean.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by platypus20 View Post
...they are listed as SYOZ 25, OZ 25 or EOC 25, they are based on the Din #6833 spec, they work great, but individual collets are big time expensive...
Yeah, I wondered. My current mill came with a full set of OZ 25 collets. They work just fine but they are pricey little buggers--pretty sure I paid north of 50 bucks a pop for a couple that I needed to fill gaps.

The toolholder is an NMTB30 to OZ 25 so the only place it gets used is in the mill and all the common sizes were there when I bought the mill. I know I had to buy a couple oddballs and they were pricey. If I were starting from scratch I'd go ER40...
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