Shop Floor Talk  

Go Back   Shop Floor Talk > Welding and Metalworking Forums > Blacksmithing & Forming

SFT Search:   
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 05-11-2020, 03:08 PM
USMCPOP's Avatar
USMCPOP USMCPOP is offline
Gold Star Dad
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Richmond, VA area
Posts: 12,179
Default

Wow! about sums it up.

Edit: Now that I think about, it's a BigAzzAxe.
__________________
USMCPOP

Last edited by USMCPOP; 05-11-2020 at 03:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-11-2020, 05:29 PM
Matt Shade's Avatar
Matt Shade Matt Shade is online now
Made From Scratch
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,995
Default

I like it. I understand how you feel about the little bit of pitting, but there are a lot of people who like that look, and I think once its been put to use you won't give them another thought.
This is an impressive piece, there is a lot more planning and thought that goes into a project like this than one where you simply hammer a big piece down into the desired shape. Getting both sides to match that well when you fold it over has to be challenging.
__________________
Handcrafted Leather
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-11-2020, 08:34 PM
Ironman's Avatar
Ironman Ironman is offline
Iron Modification Investigator
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Warburg, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 15,180
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by midmosandblasting View Post
Don't get to down about the pits. They show it to be a hand crafted piece .
Absolutely.
Perfection is for the gods, humans cannot achieve it, but we mortals try to challenge the gods as we create. just me thinkin.
__________________
Gerry
You got freedom of speech, if you don't say too much.
Aaron Neville.

The virtue is always a cover for the sin. That's the key to understanding the modern left. Whatever they're accusing you of doing, they are doing themselves but more enthusiastically. And that's definitely the story of Justin Trudeau. Tucker Carlson
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-12-2020, 06:59 AM
allessence's Avatar
allessence allessence is offline
Gadget Girl
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: MA, 01543
Posts: 6,721
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by astronut View Post
As usual, very nice work!
Thanks.. Was fun..

Quote:
Originally Posted by toprecycler View Post
Looks good, and a lot of work! ( in the making of it, and the use of it)

Thanks.. Not to bad time wise about 7hrs for forge work till the finish. Little over the average..


Sent from my iPhone using ShopFloorTalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by midmosandblasting View Post
Don't get to down about the pits. They show it to be a hand crafted piece .
Yeah. today its the new normal. Being old school just makes me wanna do another one.. Not a fan of the hammered look..

I spent some time yesterday cleaning it up more and little happier with the results..

I'll post some photos of it when completely finished. Putting on the final cutting edge leads to more finish work.. So it will be neat to look at.
__________________
_________________
Jennifer

If I defend myself I am attacked.

My meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world.

My attack thoughts are attacking my invulnerability.

I'd like to think of something smart, but I don't want to hurt myself.

My google+ page

DoALL 36"
Another Johnson model J Project
Lathe? Maybe..... 1958 SBL 13"
Yeti Esseti Aka running welder on 3phase.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-12-2020, 07:10 AM
allessence's Avatar
allessence allessence is offline
Gadget Girl
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: MA, 01543
Posts: 6,721
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by USMCPOP View Post
Wow! about sums it up.

Edit: Now that I think about, it's a BigAzzAxe.
thanks.. It is kinda neat.. Don't see these much anymore.. Yes it is.. for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Shade View Post
I like it. I understand how you feel about the little bit of pitting, but there are a lot of people who like that look, and I think once its been put to use you won't give them another thought.
This is an impressive piece, there is a lot more planning and thought that goes into a project like this than one where you simply hammer a big piece down into the desired shape. Getting both sides to match that well when you fold it over has to be challenging.
Matt, being old school, for me hammer marks and pits are icky.

Not a fan of what others think in regards to the hammered look as being vintage. the level of forge work was impressive and myself I strive to the same standards the old timers did.

I know, it sounds like I"m on a soap box.. I've been contacted by several people who now have gone on to both make and sell items worthy of a professional smith.. Both asked me, " How do we make the product better"..

First thing was to make it their own and stand out from the pack.. It seems that many who like that hammered looks is because they themselves leave those hammer marks in all their work..

My standards or quality of work has to meet my own.. I love the old tools and feel today many really miss the mark.

Both of the people who contacted me really make superior work now.

Look at old hand made leather tools or pick axes or really any old tool that was made by hand.. They don't look hand made unless you know what you are looking for. that is the standard I am after.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
Absolutely.
Perfection is for the gods, humans cannot achieve it, but we mortals try to challenge the gods as we create. just me thinkin.
Well said.. The shakers had the expression " Hands and hearts up to God". So anytime something is made it should be made with as much with an eye on God's perfection as we can achieve in an unperfect world.

No one but myself can judge my work as good nor as bad unless I give them the power to. I have to stick to my own value system and with this maybe the old ways and quality can be brought back around.

Or not.. I'll just keep on, keeping on..


Thanks guys for all the kind words. I'll post up some photos of the completely finished item... I'm pretty happy other than those hammer marks and pits..
__________________
_________________
Jennifer

If I defend myself I am attacked.

My meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world.

My attack thoughts are attacking my invulnerability.

I'd like to think of something smart, but I don't want to hurt myself.

My google+ page

DoALL 36"
Another Johnson model J Project
Lathe? Maybe..... 1958 SBL 13"
Yeti Esseti Aka running welder on 3phase.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-12-2020, 10:19 PM
Matt Shade's Avatar
Matt Shade Matt Shade is online now
Made From Scratch
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,995
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by allessence View Post


Matt, being old school, for me hammer marks and pits are icky.

Not a fan of what others think in regards to the hammered look as being vintage. the level of forge work was impressive and myself I strive to the same standards the old timers did.

I know, it sounds like I"m on a soap box.. I've been contacted by several people who now have gone on to both make and sell items worthy of a professional smith.. Both asked me, " How do we make the product better"..

First thing was to make it their own and stand out from the pack.. It seems that many who like that hammered looks is because they themselves leave those hammer marks in all their work..

My standards or quality of work has to meet my own.. I love the old tools and feel today many really miss the mark.

Both of the people who contacted me really make superior work now.

Look at old hand made leather tools or pick axes or really any old tool that was made by hand.. They don't look hand made unless you know what you are looking for. that is the standard I am after.


I agree with you completely. I don't make knives with hammer marks and I am trying not to have them on my other blacksmithing projects. When I see people do it deliberately I just shake my head.

At the same time, I think you have to recognize that it is a balancing act. On this particular axe you could have stopped hammering much sooner and spent much more time filing or grinding, and in the end you might have liked the appearance but you wouldn't have liked the process.

In the knife making world there are people who hammer a point on the end of the bar and then go to the grinder, and while I think they should advertise it as stock removal, they say it was forged. You set a standard for yourself on how close you hammer to finished shape, and the fact that you went so close and had so few marks left is pretty impressive.
__________________
Handcrafted Leather
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-12-2020, 11:17 PM
LW Hiway's Avatar
LW Hiway LW Hiway is offline
Lord of the Minions
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fuck Lake Charles
Posts: 21,423
Default

Quote:
I like it. I understand how you feel about the little bit of pitting, but there are a lot of people who like that look
I'm one that likes that bit of rustic, hand made look.

It will out last most of what could be bought that would also look perfect, but not be of this quality.

Well done. Really well done.
__________________
God, if you would grant me one request through Prayer, please help me be the Man my Dog thinks I am. Please.

Quoting "The Hunt". "A man will walk into hell with both eyes and arms wide open. His dog will know better."

I never thought I'd live long enough to become a grumpy old bastard. Here I am, killing it!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-13-2020, 05:34 AM
allessence's Avatar
allessence allessence is offline
Gadget Girl
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: MA, 01543
Posts: 6,721
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Shade View Post
I agree with you completely. I don't make knives with hammer marks and I am trying not to have them on my other blacksmithing projects. When I see people do it deliberately I just shake my head.

At the same time, I think you have to recognize that it is a balancing act. On this particular axe you could have stopped hammering much sooner and spent much more time filing or grinding, and in the end you might have liked the appearance but you wouldn't have liked the process.
Yes, I think for many it's a balancing act.. But it doesn't have to be..

Personally, while I am happy so many people are forging and so many are discovering this craft.. The level of or quality of work is terrible. Not everyone is making terrible things.. But, dang there is a lot of terrible.

But, If everyone decided that good enough is good enough there frankly would be terrible work.

If you show someone good work.. "They instantly know it"..

Rhetorical question:

If you can make a clean forging in the same time it takes to make a iffy one.. Why would any one choose to make iffy?

It literally takes the same amount of time..

This ax by many standards is a raging success if looked at by 99% of the people..

Is that because they don't know any better or because they settle..

One of the things that has always driven me is to not settle unless I am happy with the item.. Disregard everyone else opinion on the item.. It has to meet my standards..



Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Shade View Post
In the knife making world there are people who hammer a point on the end of the bar and then go to the grinder, and while I think they should advertise it as stock removal, they say it was forged. You set a standard for yourself on how close you hammer to finished shape, and the fact that you went so close and had so few marks left is pretty impressive.
Yes, I'm completely with you.. I think the main problem in knives is the forged blade doesn't seem to be noticed unless it has hammer marks or unless you are doing Damascus where the pattern is squeezed.

I'll say this as a general statement because I don't really know anyone who is contrary ( 100% is all about the finish work)..

Having a knife blade that functions either through stock removal or thru forging it all comes down to fit and finish.


thank you.. You do beautiful work.. I am beholden to no person.. Only to myself.

So it's been what 3 or 4 years since I came out of retirement forging. Just now I am starting to find my legs again.. the only way to get better is to push the forged to finish on every item..

With this in mind.. There has to be enough material there to actually finish it.. That is where the problem lies. The eye material is as thin as I dare go because I lost to much in the welding sequence..

Next time I will leave more material and then have something to grind off which was pretty much what has always been done.


In the old days that had "Pattern books of Toys".. Toys were tools. Light and heavy tools.

They show drawings of the items made.. All hand made and all to a finished product.. For myself there is a standard which maybe by the time I get to the end of the road. I can look at an item and be happy.. LOL..


Thanks again..
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20200429_142826.jpg
Views:	70
Size:	203.2 KB
ID:	156096   Click image for larger version

Name:	20200429_142838.jpg
Views:	67
Size:	201.7 KB
ID:	156097  
__________________
_________________
Jennifer

If I defend myself I am attacked.

My meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world.

My attack thoughts are attacking my invulnerability.

I'd like to think of something smart, but I don't want to hurt myself.

My google+ page

DoALL 36"
Another Johnson model J Project
Lathe? Maybe..... 1958 SBL 13"
Yeti Esseti Aka running welder on 3phase.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-13-2020, 05:39 AM
allessence's Avatar
allessence allessence is offline
Gadget Girl
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: MA, 01543
Posts: 6,721
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LW Hiway View Post
I'm one that likes that bit of rustic, hand made look.

It will out last most of what could be bought that would also look perfect, but not be of this quality.

Well done. Really well done.
Thanks.. She swings very nicely.

Not me.. A hand made item will always have a hand made look unless over finished..

Over finishing is where one is to take a beautifully forged item and grind it down to "not" what you started with..

here is the Hatchax which since i had the acid out got another dip.

this is well forged and well finished.. Still look hand made?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20200512_193628.jpg
Views:	74
Size:	205.5 KB
ID:	156098  
__________________
_________________
Jennifer

If I defend myself I am attacked.

My meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world.

My attack thoughts are attacking my invulnerability.

I'd like to think of something smart, but I don't want to hurt myself.

My google+ page

DoALL 36"
Another Johnson model J Project
Lathe? Maybe..... 1958 SBL 13"
Yeti Esseti Aka running welder on 3phase.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:17 AM
greywynd's Avatar
greywynd greywynd is offline
I can dig it
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wainwright, Alberta
Posts: 5,406
Default

Been watching, not sure what to say for a bit.

As a Tool and Die Maker, (often called Toolmakers) I see where Jen is coming from. As the person who makes something, they are intimate with the outcome, as they are the reason for it. Whether it be hammer marks from forging, a milled part being slightly off in some way, a bit of material gone from too much grinding, the person that did it will know. Many will say “It’s good enough” and call it a day. A craftsman will say “It will work, and is okay, but it could be better”.

When I was working in die casting, I did tool build for a while. Majority were production tools, designed to make and be serviceable for thousands, even millions of parts. These tools were superior in terms of fit and build quality, final fitting was done by hand to less than a tenth of a thousandth for clearance at times. In my opinion, they were basically a piece of art.

We would also build prototype tools, often to make parts for real life testing, as the design would maybe be on ‘the edge’ somehow. Strength, lifespan, function, whatever. Generally we would be making 50-1000 parts. For these, it was quick and dirty, and ‘good enough’, as long as we could make the few parts we needed.

I look at Jen’s bigazz axe, and am impressed, because I know what it took to get it ‘done’. A lot of work, sweat, and knowledge for sure. I’m also impressed, because it’s a neat process, and will work and function quite well as it is.

I can also see where she will see the ‘imperfections’, and where I, or some people could say they are ‘character’ marks, she sees them as flaws. Not big enough to make it scrap or un-usable, but flaws in her craftsmanship. And I can understand why she is striving to do better next round.

Sure lots of people can heat a piece of metal and beat on it with a hammer. Pretty much all of us here can, or have. Some can even shape it into things.

The difference is that the attitude is whether it’s “good enough”, or if it’s an “It’s good, but I can do better”. I see the latter here from several people, Jen and Matt being two that readily come to mind. And to me, people that strive to do better, are the ‘craftsman’ versus the ‘builder’.




Sent from my iPhone using ShopFloorTalk
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Web Search:

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.