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Old 12-03-2013, 11:55 PM
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Graybeard62 Graybeard62 is offline
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Unhappy Electrical problems, where?

I have a little Lincoln 140 HD 110v Mig that I've been using for 3 years or so. Been very happy with it, never had any problems.

Last week I was out on a little job and using "shore" power and I popped the curcuit breaker of the house - 20 amp. I was well within the duty cycle and only mid range on the power. Over the course of the day it happened 4-5 more times, different curcuits, extension cord or not.

When I got home I found a loose connection on my work lead, happy days, I thought I had it fixed. A couple of extended beads on high power confirmed it, no problems. But for good measure I pulled all of the connections apart, blew everything out, and looked over everything with a "fine toothed comb".

Yesterday, I was out and needed a couple of quick welds out of reach of a recepticle, so I grabbed my GenSet, a chinese 4450 w unit, that I've "tested" this welder with before. I could not establish a bead and the GenSet bogged down to the point it almost died.

Pack everything up, bring it home and plug it in. A couple of welds later and I popped my 20 amp curcuit breaker.

Short of "Shoulda bought Blue", any ideas?

(Rod, feel free to move this if it would work better elsewhere)
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  #2  
Old 12-04-2013, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graybeard62 View Post

(Rod, feel free to move this if it would work better elsewhere)
It's equipment, it's in the Equipment forum where it belongs as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:09 AM
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I'm on dial up and after trying to down load the manuals 3 times 1 hour each try, they failed at the end.

With your symptom's usually what fails in the MIG's is the diodes, you may have two or four. there may be an exception with a few Lincolns.
Assuming the diodes are not custom they may range about $10 each from a electronics store.

This may end up being tricky because you don't have a hard short, 95% of the time the diodes short out and it trip's the breaker all the time when you pull the trigger.

Until I get a manual post some pictures of the inside.
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Old 12-04-2013, 10:33 AM
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Gwiz, I looked up the Lincoln 140 hd and this is the wiring diagram.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf lincoln140.pdf (144.6 KB, 239 views)
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Old 12-04-2013, 10:47 PM
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Hey Guys,

Didn't get any pics, daughter had surgery today. Thanks for looking up the document, Bill.

I'll try to get pics tomorrow, thanks for your interest!
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To real estate agent - "I need a 8 car garage with an attached kitchen and bedroom"

"I'm not saying we kill stupid people, just remove warning labels and let the problem sort itself out"

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  #6  
Old 12-05-2013, 03:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RancherBill View Post
Gwiz, I looked up the Lincoln 140 hd and this is the wiring diagram.
Gary will need to tell us which manual to use and the Code number for the proper wiring diagram.

imt891
uses four diodes.

imt10049
uses two diodes.
===

Thank for the help,
as I was viewing your file I decided to down load one of the manuals using Wget Linux.
The program runs under a Dos type of mode using the Command prompt (windows XP)

under 4.2 Multi-session Download in the link.
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/co...tting_EMC.html

In my case the program does two things, it will automatically retry if the connection is lost.
it notes where the download stopped/aborted or interrupted and continues from there without starting from the beginning.

Also,
I was able to down load large programs over the course of a week, it would continue the download where I left off after I decided it was time to quit for the day and turn off the computer..

===
I got a good download of the manuals. funny thing just as it was getting to the end of the download the connection got interrupted less than a second blip, Wget retry worked without a problem.
The other manual tried the same thing cutting off the download just before the finish.
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Old 12-13-2013, 12:45 PM
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Well, the family stuff kept me longer than I thought.

Here are pics of the inside of the machine, the outer label and the wiring diagram from inside the cover.

Don
Attached Thumbnails
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Name:	140 hd wiring diagram.jpg
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ID:	111967  

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GB62

To real estate agent - "I need a 8 car garage with an attached kitchen and bedroom"

"I'm not saying we kill stupid people, just remove warning labels and let the problem sort itself out"

Snap-On Tools
Matco Boxes
Direct Lift Motorcycle Hoists
Lincoln Welders
Thermal Arc Inverters
Real Solvent in the tank
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  #8  
Old 12-13-2013, 12:58 PM
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Final pic of the label.

I am starting to wonder if the problem is the welder. I ran it on a 15 amp circuit yesterday for a short time, no problems.

The problem at the customers house with the multiple popping of curcuit can be explained with the loose ground connection.

The occasional problem in my garage - I've always thought that the GE 20 amp breakers that feed the garage popped easily.

That leaves the genset...thinking back, I don't remember hearing the RPMs increase, might have, but those kinds of things usually register with me. The RPMs should increase, shouldn't they?

Thanks, Don
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Name:	140 hd back panel.jpg
Views:	233
Size:	99.7 KB
ID:	111969  
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GB62

To real estate agent - "I need a 8 car garage with an attached kitchen and bedroom"

"I'm not saying we kill stupid people, just remove warning labels and let the problem sort itself out"

Snap-On Tools
Matco Boxes
Direct Lift Motorcycle Hoists
Lincoln Welders
Thermal Arc Inverters
Real Solvent in the tank
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  #9  
Old 12-15-2013, 01:39 PM
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Any thoughts, anyone?
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GB62

To real estate agent - "I need a 8 car garage with an attached kitchen and bedroom"

"I'm not saying we kill stupid people, just remove warning labels and let the problem sort itself out"

Snap-On Tools
Matco Boxes
Direct Lift Motorcycle Hoists
Lincoln Welders
Thermal Arc Inverters
Real Solvent in the tank
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-15-2013, 03:14 PM
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I just rotated the pic.

I am not a tech. I used to 'fix' monitors if I could before I would send them out to REAL techs.

Your welder is one I might try to fix. What I know how to fix is 'cold solder' joints. When you manually solder you heat the component, heat the board and then apply solder. The same applies in manufacturing, but as you can imagine there are 1000 variables. When they are manufactured the soldering initially works, but with time, heat, gravity, vibration etc the flaw becomes evident. The symptoms you describe are time heat related.

I would look at the back side of the board. You'll see on the small components a nice tapered cone of solder. This is just for reference as to what they should look like. The larger components they should look the same. It is the larger components where the failures occur. Some of the things on the list are transistors, diodes, connector, capacitors and other big stuff.

Look for irregularities or signs of heating or anything else that is unusual. You will need a magnifying glass to see some of them.

Hopefully after you take a look Gwiz will be back.
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