Shop Floor Talk  

Go Back   Shop Floor Talk > Welding and Metalworking Forums > Welding

SFT Search:   
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-13-2013, 12:07 AM
Dr Page Dr Page is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 18
Default no experience/tools. what to use for very small brazing job

As the title says, this will be my first and probably last brazing job. I'm not looking to set up a permanent job or spend more than a few hundred dollars on equipment.

I'll start by saying I love my guns. What I'm doing is modifying the rear of a beretta 92 frame to have a curved beavertail (the little 'teat' just below the hammer, above the grip), similar to a drop-in safety for a 1911. This is a cosmetic change only. I say it again COSMETIC CHANGE ONLY. I am not tampering with the function of the gun, so I don't need any lip from any Safety Sally. All I am doing is filing away about 1/16" of the very rear of the gun frame. Then I am crafting a curved piece from 6061 T6 aluminum to look like the curve of a drop-in safety. If you google a 92fs and 1911 drop in safety and compare the two, you see what I am getting at.

EDIT: ADDED PHOTOS TO ORIGINAL POST

It's just a simple curve that tapers to a soft point. I have several spare gun frames with which to practice on before I finalize the real deal, but I need to know what sort of equipment (torch, etc) is best for brazing aluminum to aluminum (the gun's frame is aluminum). I want some input from some experts on what I need to buy this project. I plan on practicing some basic brazing, sticking piece A to piece B. After that I wanted to practice on a couple of spare gun frames I have lying around. So what should I buy to last me basically a couple dozen uses?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2013_10_13_11_5bb3a7d436d4341fa8df.jpg
Views:	432
Size:	90.5 KB
ID:	110214   Click image for larger version

Name:	2013_10_13_11_5bb3a7d436d4341fa8df_2.jpg
Views:	465
Size:	18.4 KB
ID:	110215  

Last edited by cutter; 10-13-2013 at 01:55 AM. Reason: upload attachments, eliminate off-site hosting
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-13-2013, 12:12 AM
akabull's Avatar
akabull akabull is offline
Maine-iac
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Albany Township, Maine
Posts: 2,240
Send a message via MSN to akabull
Default

Are you sure that is a safe thing to do?

I honestly have no idea, but I'd bet a wooden nickel somebody will be along shortly who does.
__________________
Chris in Maine
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-13-2013, 12:20 AM
Dr Page Dr Page is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 18
Default

Totally safe. I've seen real examples and gotten limited advice from people who have actually done similar things but people are kinda flakey and don't always respond when I ask questions. I working on getting some images up.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-13-2013, 12:22 AM
Dr Page Dr Page is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 18
Default

The first picture is my personal firearm. The second what I'm trying to achieve. See the indicated red circles - this is the actual job i'm trying to accomplish. I wouldn't be attempting this if there weren't already real life examples of it. Meaning it CAN be done. One of the machinists who did it told me the material he used, which is 6061 T6, that he hand shaped it, and he used brazing (he has no welding experience). But he won't do one for me. I'll have to do it myself.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2013_10_13_11_5bb3a7d436d4341fa8df.jpg
Views:	377
Size:	90.5 KB
ID:	110212   Click image for larger version

Name:	2013_10_13_11_5bb3a7d436d4341fa8df_2.jpg
Views:	413
Size:	18.4 KB
ID:	110213  

Last edited by cutter; 10-13-2013 at 01:39 AM. Reason: upload attachments, eliminate off-site hosting
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-13-2013, 01:48 AM
cutter's Avatar
cutter cutter is offline
Curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Lubbock,Texas
Posts: 32,748
Default

Dr Page, just so you know, we do not use off-site hosting for reasons given in our FAQ.
Please use the manage attachments option below your text window.

No problem with your selection of the Welding Processes forum but just in case you hadn't noticed, we also have a Firearms forum down in the Members Only section.
__________________
cutter
Housekeeping Staff: the Gatekeeper
Director of Policy, Syntax and Grammar (by appointment)

"Dr. Chandran, will I dream?"

Just Keep Walking

"Passionate hatred can give meaning and purpose to an empty life. Thus people haunted by the purposelessness of their lives try to find a new content not only by dedicating themselves to a holy cause but also by nursing a fanatical grievance. A mass movement offers them unlimited opportunities for both."
Eric Hoffer The True Believer 1951
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-13-2013, 02:03 AM
Dr Page Dr Page is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 18
Default

OK thanks for the heads up. I typically read FAQs before posting but because it was so late I tended to want get my words out as quick as possible. Thank you for fixing my previous posts. Would it be considered redundant to make the same post in the firearms section?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-13-2013, 02:18 AM
cutter's Avatar
cutter cutter is offline
Curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Lubbock,Texas
Posts: 32,748
Default

Yes, it would but you're probably going to get maximum readership up here anyway.
I think almost all the gun guys read this forum and I'm pretty sure all the members with the experience to answer your questions do.
They do not all necessarily read or post to the Firearms forum.
Give it a little time. If the world ends tomorrow your Beretta will probably be just as useful as it is.
__________________
cutter
Housekeeping Staff: the Gatekeeper
Director of Policy, Syntax and Grammar (by appointment)

"Dr. Chandran, will I dream?"

Just Keep Walking

"Passionate hatred can give meaning and purpose to an empty life. Thus people haunted by the purposelessness of their lives try to find a new content not only by dedicating themselves to a holy cause but also by nursing a fanatical grievance. A mass movement offers them unlimited opportunities for both."
Eric Hoffer The True Believer 1951
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-13-2013, 02:29 AM
Dr Page Dr Page is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 18
Default

I'm sure it will, and in any case I have several back ups, but the beretta just doesn't quit. It takes whatever ammo I throw into it. Miles more worthy than any polymer gun I've seen.

EDIT for staying on topic: Before I inadvertently turn this into a firearms debate, I really just need some brazing expertise, though any input concerning weapons and metal filing (my next biggest hurdle, again no experience) will be graciously accepted.

Who knows, if by some stroke of luck I am actually able to pull this off, I may consider expanding - there's a small market for this type of thing, hobbyists and the like. I've seen many people wanting something like this but just not having the resources or the knowledge base to do it themselves. Like I said, a small market but its definitely there.

I just want my gun to have some unique flair, because as we all know, the gun rules are as follows:

1. Practice safety for safe practice
2. The coolest looking gun is the best gun
3. And that's it, there are no more rules

Last edited by Dr Page; 10-13-2013 at 02:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-13-2013, 03:30 AM
GWIZ's Avatar
GWIZ GWIZ is offline
SFT Historian
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 6,769
Default

This really is .. something no one should attempt or do!

===

The first thing you need to know that aluminum usually warps when heated and may not return back to its original state.
SO there IS a problem of safety if you warp the frame.

Have no idea what the heat will do to the anodized finish.


The AL brazing rod that I picked up from a swapmeet looked shiny from the start but eventually turned Gray after I used it.

Definitely a propane Torch, just not sure how power-full.

If you are crazy enough to try this, I would completely disassemble it and clamp it between two completely flat plates to help absorb the heat or prevent the heat from traveling.

We do have some threads about brazing AL.
http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/...ad.php?t=25961


The torch I used in this thread should work but the flame spread maybe too much.
http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/...ad.php?t=18216
__________________
*
*
The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment. ~Warren G. Bennis
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-13-2013, 03:42 AM
Dr Page Dr Page is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 18
Default

The color of the brazing rod is irrelevant, but aluminum you say. The entire frame will be recoated once I have finished brazing and shaping. I would expect I should use a rod of a much lower melting point than that of the two materials I'm trying to put together. Best info I can find about the Beretta's material is "aircraft grade aluminum alloy." I don't know what that means, but I can't assume anything about its strength from this. The melting point of aluminum (assuming it's pure) is 1221 F. The melting point of 6061 AL is 1080 to 1205 F. I can conclude for my own knowledge that a "mixture" of metals melts at a lower temperature than a pure material (correct?) I should have paid more attention during inorganic chemistry.

Yes, the frame may warp. That's why I have several to practice on to see the extent of any damage that may occur. If you know your metal melts or warps at a specific temperature, what kind of "buffer zone" do you keep to make sure you don't reach that point? 20 degrees? 100 degrees?

When you say anodized finish, to what are you referring?

I still don't see why everyone thinks this is so crazy. It's not like I'm going to take a torch to a loaded firearm, cocked and locked! A firearm, especially a disassembled frame with no mechanism attached, cannot go off or explode. And if the frame is damaged during the process, I'm not dumb enough to try to shoot it afterwards. It just won't happen. A metal frame is just a metal frame. No different than heating any other metal. No risk.

Thanks for the links, by the way. I'll review those the first chance I get.

Honestly I'm more worried about burning my hand, or blowing up my garage working with brazing torches than I am about hurting myself on my own gun.

Last edited by Dr Page; 10-13-2013 at 04:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
braze, brazing, filing, handgun

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Web Search:

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.