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  #51  
Old 12-18-2019, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by terry lingle View Post
If the long hoses always fail in the same area could you split them into two or three sections ? That way you only need to replace the short failed section.


+3. But then realistically, the amount of use this lift will see the rest of its life with you owning it, the hoses will probably fail due to age of them, and not from overuse, unless something is rubbing due to a mechanical problem. A new set of hoses will last it your lifetime most likely.

But, if you plan on selling it after you get your building up, then can you roll the cost into the new improved running machine selling price to get your money back?

Making hoses is not rocket science, and I know you have the knowhow and skills to do your own, but you do need to take care of the fine details like crimp dimensions when done.

Don’t want to scare you to not do it, but just trying to make sure you have thought of all the pros and cons. Gerry could be into something, if you invest into a machine, and proper fittings and hoses, you could make a little side business, but beware, there are a shit load of different ends out there. We probably stock $30,000 of fittings and hoses, and probably at least twice a week someone comes in with something off the wall British/ European fitting, and we turn them away. We would rather turn a customer away not making a hose or Gerry rigging something up that fails, and then have the reputation that we do poor work, just because we did not have the correct ends.

And the local shops that charge outrageous prices, how many hoses do they actually make. Is this really a money making part of the business, taking into the account the investment of inventory and machines, or a break even service they provide for the locals?





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  #52  
Old 12-21-2019, 07:11 PM
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Whitetrash Whitetrash is offline
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I was just rereading this thread and crunched the numbers on Grove's price for the replacement hose that posts a length. $21+ per Ft. I'd be buying a crimper right quick damn thing will pay for itself just fixing the Grove .
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  #53  
Old 12-21-2019, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy View Post
My concern wouldnt so much be the safety. I think you standardise on a brand and type of hose and only ever make new lines, never repairs.

As Jen says it's not rocket science.


My concern would be the payback. The equipment isnt cheap and isnt something I'd be willing to DIY. Also I've found buying the components in small quantities isnt cheap either so the payback will be a very very long time.


I would still think some shopping around machinery dealers is worth doing.


If you're Gerry and repairing plant and machinery is your bread and butter, or you're a farmer who's working 24/7 then it's worth having a setup, but outside of that I've looked into it before and couldnt make the numbers add up.


$105 for your example hose doesnt sound outlandish to me. not cheap, but not crazy expensive either. inch hose and fittings are expensive.
If it was 1 hose than it's a great price.. But, when were start talking 597" or 50ft for one hose plus fittings. Well it adds up.. I'd rather throw money at something I will own and for a piece of equipment that does not go bad if used once a year or every 3 years it can pay off just with convience.

I have been looking at different machines ever since this thread was started.. Have watched videos by Weathertite, Goodyear, as well as a few others..

The differences between machines are subtle.. They use 2 basic different ways of crimping. 1 is a spacer that sets the distance for a given die, hose, fitting combonation. The other is a micrometer arrangement which one sets before doing the crimp..

After the crimp the crimp itself is measured with calipers to make sure it is within spec.

I have found the smaller fittings for 3-4.00 each and hose new runs about 1.50 to 2.50 per foot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by astronut View Post
I misstated shoulder replacement. Actually it was shoulder surgery, my bad! Shoddy work equipment that belonged to a shoddy employer who was not concerned about safety for its employees at a time when employment opportunities were scare and the employer could replace anyone at anytime because there were so many unemployed that were eager to take your place if you complained about unsafe working conditions. Dont remember the brand of equipment since it was many years ago back in the mid 1980's. Thinking back, it should have been condemned and scrapped. The shoulder still bothers me at times especially in certain positions when trying to sleep. And I did not mean to be so harsh in my previous response. Sorry!
No problem.. I just really wanted to know how the hose failed leading to you taking a header onto the shoulder. It sounds horrific and want to avoid it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by randydupree View Post
When i walk into my local parts place with a hose they just wave me right to the back,i normally make my own hoses on their machine.

Jen,your right,the shops that make hoses get plenty of money for them.

I don't think i would try to make a home made hose crimper,no,i know i would not.

But,today i did see the rare humorous side of Jen the blacksmith!
Nice.. I do have a sense of humor.. Just off kilter..

After looking at 15 different crimper machines of different ages and studying how they work.. I have found that the Parker karry crimp and the EAton Weatherhead use a spacer setup that goes ontop of the crimp die. this is what controls the crimp depth and these spacers come in 3 different thicknesses. So you simply adjust the spacer for a given hose/fitting and use the spacer which bottoms out when the crimp is done..

Again confirming that the crimp was completed to the right pressure by measuring with calipers or micrometer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
Looking at your hose mangle-tangle I woulld want to put all fresh ones on. As Johnboy says, you need to look at payback. So it may require buying a bowl and dies. And it's not rocket science.
But unless you are buying a lot of this stuff, I would check out what supplies will cost you. Shop around for bulk hose prices and press on ends in the sizes you need. That way you can see what the margin is from your local supplier. In my case, the markup on two hoses paid for the hose press.
As a second choice, go to the local boys with your price list and hose lengths and fittings and say 'look, I am pricing out this job and I thought I would give you a crack at giving me a quote on this as well as blank-blank' (their competition) They may surprise you.

OTOH, if prices are as bad as you say, you are not the only one stuck in the mud, and if it became known that there was a blacksmith beating on hoses, you may have a side business.
As far as local farmers go, there is a whole segment of the industry running around with 2500psi oil in galvanized water pipes and thread together fittings. Makes me cringe, but strangely I have never seen one burst. When a farmer is down they throw anything at it, and your product will be acceptable.
Yup a bowl and dies would both be easy, simple and reasonably priced.. Goodyear, Eaton Weatherhead, and a few others use the bowl/die/spacer arrangement for a correct crimp pressure (depth) and its then measured to verify the correct spec.

Also, neat is that many of the fittings now are Non skived.

Quote:
Originally Posted by terry lingle View Post
If the long hoses always fail in the same area could you split them into two or three sections ? That way you only need to replace the short failed section.
There are many short hoses.. The ones for the boom have 2 or 3 bends. The problem is UV exposure.. It's rotted out the outside corner so will have to replace all of these hoses at some point..


This machine for the money looks like one of the best deals at the moment.

https://www.discounthydraulichose.co...duct_Code=D165

the design is the same as Goodyear, Eaton and conti.

I could put together a kit like this for about 400.00

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WEATHERHEAD...E/153755765219

I really like this machine but for the money is very pricey.. I was thinking of offering 4000.00 and wait for the NO, are you crazy..


https://www.ebay.com/itm/hydraulic-h...97.m4902.l9144


Anyhow, I have already learned a lot and can see it is not as straight forward as I first thought it was.. But it is also not as complicated as many would lead others to believe.

It means some homework for sure, but there are resources from some of the companies for their gear and lines of hoses and fittings that give all the specs for a correct crimp. Again each MFG specs out a fitting crimp size after the crimp with a spec that is a go/no go.
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  #54  
Old 12-21-2019, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Whitetrash View Post
I was just rereading this thread and crunched the numbers on Grove's price for the replacement hose that posts a length. $21+ per Ft. I'd be buying a crimper right quick damn thing will pay for itself just fixing the Grove .
that is a double hose for that one, but even so at 11 per foot for a 1.50 per hose foot wholesale cost is a little high.
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  #55  
Old 12-21-2019, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by allessence View Post
that is a double hose for that one, but even so at 11 per foot for a 1.50 per hose foot wholesale cost is a little high.
Oops, didn't catch the twin hose reference. Doesn't make much difference in my my mind. Even $11 per foot is totally ridiculous. I am highly partial to Parker hose and their weatherhead line of fittings and crimpers. I literally pulled my crimper out of the back of a rearload garbage truck during one of the management purges of our shop. It is a great unit I could make hoses out in the field using the air brake system on the truck to run the crimper. I would also be BS-ing you if I claimed to have mic-ed fittings after building a hose. Nobody that trained me eons ago mentioned it and I've never done it. I have never had any issue with hoses failing due to improper assembly either. If you use a system matched to your components you won't have any trouble.
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  #56  
Old 12-21-2019, 09:41 PM
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Remember that all you save by having the machine is the mark up on hose and fittings plus the labor costs.

Will you live long enough to pay off the machine if you are only making your own hoses?

If you branch out and make hoses for customers your inventory balloons and payback time increases.
Liability becomes an issue as well.

I was at the local industrial supplier and asked about this
They make a profit on each hose until they factor in the machine and inventory
then it becomes a service to keep the customers coming back.

The largest contractor around has the capability to do every repair on his machines except hoses because of the large inventory needed to meet his needs.
Every machine he owns has a Hose list and every day the operator inspects his machine and reports all upcoming issues. required hoses are ordered when they show signs and are on hand when failure happens. The only real downtime comes from unexpected failures.
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  #57  
Old 12-21-2019, 10:12 PM
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Your right Terry there is no sane reason to try to stock an inventory of fittings given how many are out there. But, keeping a stock of common hose sizes and ordering matching fitting for projects makes a ton of sense to me. The local NAPA store here should have the "Jolly Rodger" over the building standard markup on all things is 30-50% over valley prices probably closer to 60% over Amazon. A 3 ft hydraulic hose with a standard 37% JIC fitting on one end and a swivel fitting on the other will probably set you back better than $60 for that I will order in and build my own hoses.
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  #58  
Old 12-21-2019, 10:21 PM
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At least two places I’ve worked in the past had the capability to make hoses. Even at that it was kept tona certain range and type, larger stuff was still done by a supplier in town.


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  #59  
Old 12-21-2019, 10:42 PM
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The guy in town does a good business.. In fact we have major construction as the town is a meca for builders..

The guy who used to make the hoses decided to retire and when he did, this other guy bought out his inventory and hired the guys *(Richard) to train him on the use of the machine and building hoses.. Richard has some 40 years of experience in hose crimping.

I need to go see Richard and will ask him what his take is on it..

I do not want to get into the hose making business.. I have enough things on my plate all ready.. But with this said. To make my own or for a friend is not a big deal and would be happy to do it.

the guy who let me borrow the Lull needed the 1 hose and to have a cylinder repacked.. I did the work for him for 0. But he refused for me to pay for the hose. He's a nice guy but doing something like that would make me feel better about using his equipment. I always like to return the gear in better shape than borrowed.

I don't have 4K hanging around to waste.. But investing in equipment is part of the business process and if I can fix the lift up and sell it later at a profit and decide I can live without the hose crimper, these things hold their values as well..
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  #60  
Old 12-21-2019, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry lingle View Post
Remember that all you save by having the machine is the mark up on hose and fittings plus the labor costs.

Will you live long enough to pay off the machine if you are only making your own hoses?

If you branch out and make hoses for customers your inventory balloons and payback time increases.
Liability becomes an issue as well.

I was at the local industrial supplier and asked about this
They make a profit on each hose until they factor in the machine and inventory
then it becomes a service to keep the customers coming back.

The largest contractor around has the capability to do every repair on his machines except hoses because of the large inventory needed to meet his needs.
Every machine he owns has a Hose list and every day the operator inspects his machine and reports all upcoming issues. required hoses are ordered when they show signs and are on hand when failure happens. The only real downtime comes from unexpected failures.
I as told by a really good farmer that anytime I buy a piece of equipment buy it because it has the ability to pay itself off within the 1st year.. He also said that if the piece is a higher item and it needs 2 years to pay off that is ok to, but 2 years is about max.

he also added that as a hobby its' all good because it is not a need to make the business grow or become more profitiable. It's more of a want.


I would spend in hoses what the machine to make the hoses cost and would have nothing but hoses to show for it.

If I buy the machine and fittings and hoses to have on hand it really is not a big deal to me to have a machine sitting on the shelf.. I've got all sorts of stuff just hanging around waiting for use..

Heck I have 20 anvils, 7 hand crank blowers. 7 leg vises.. and a whole bunch of other items that I have been saving for 30 years to open a teaching center.. LOL.. Having a crimper hanging is probably the smallest item that will be hanging.
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Jennifer

If I defend myself I am attacked.

My meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world.

My attack thoughts are attacking my invulnerability.

I'd like to think of something smart, but I don't want to hurt myself.

My google+ page

DoALL 36"
Another Johnson model J Project
Lathe? Maybe..... 1958 SBL 13"
Yeti Esseti Aka running welder on 3phase.
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