Allessence Blacksmithing Teaching facility

[bunkclimber]

Originally Posted by allessence

I have also bought 2, 200amp SqD QO 42 slot panels with disconnects in them.


I went yesterday and picked up the IR heater 150Btu..

I'm still waiting to hear about the the Meter socket before I purchase it.

I need to split the wires from the Disconnect switch to each panel.

I know there is a way to buy the lugs but will have to investigate more as it approaches.

I'm taking it that you meant main breakers in the panels,not 'disconnects' as you stated. One way to go about this is to mount a long electrical gutter underneath the disconnect and panels,stub the disconnect and panels down with a 2"nipples into the gutter and make your wiring chase thru that and up into each panel from the disconnect switch. Lugs can be had in 'double barrel', or two-hole(one for each cable)..don't forget your 2 ground rods and solid copper wire for grounding conductor.You may have to exothermic weld the grounding electrode to the grounding conductor,some states or jurisdictions require it vs.a ground rod clamp.I would bond the building steel to the ground bar in the disconnect as well.Typically the disconnects don't come with a neutral assembly..hope you got one Jen they are pricey..best of luck to you

[allessence]

So Yes they are breakers but also referenced as disconnects as they are mounted outside the building and is how the fire and popo can shut off power if need be. So hence disconnect.


ON this note.. I could use more help on the electrical front.

I have reached out to the electrical inspector and though he has experience
"Rutland has a no electrical work done by homeowner policy". So he was not helpful at all. In fact nearly down right doing his best not to share information.

I thought these guys were here to "Help" Guidance and defender of the faith"code"..

So, I am main contact for NG "national grid" and so fare I have worked up sheets for the service requirements.

I have included the sheets and would appreciate feedback.. I can wire many things and do a good job..

I do not plan on installing the SE just have the stuff needed for when the time comes.. the Service equipment (breaker panels) I will install myself if I can get away with it.

But that is a whole other thing.

I have included the load sheet, the Meter socket with disconnect and the National Grid install sheets. In that order.

[allessence]

I did order the garage door and got a Cloplay 3730

It's a 3" THICK door and a 5ft high lift.. the clearance overhead is 6ft to mount of the torsion spring.

I ended up getting a good deal through all places Homedepot..

I'm doing ok so far, but 10 years ago when i started this thing everything was 2000.00.. Now everything is 3,500 to 4K..

propane tank 4200, Wire to the shop, 3500.00, Door 3K.. It adds up fast.. So being able to save a few dollars here or there increases what is possible.

[mccutter]

Originally Posted by allessence

I have reached out to the electrical inspector and though he has experience "Rutland has a no electrical work done by homeowner policy"...I thought these guys were here to "Help".

Sounds like he is just CHA. Electrical Codes are to prevent hackjobs, and I'm sure he has seen his share of "questionable" HO wiring jobs to/in outbuildings. So everyone is guilty by association. All it takes is one lawsuit by a HO saying "Well, you inspected it and said it was ok!" when he brings a lawsuit upon the town when his faulty wiring burns down his structure. If you don't like it, go kick a slipNfall in the nuts today...

You need to search your local area for someone willing to "help" and/or work with you on applying for an inspection while you do the work. You shouldn't have to be an electrician to run conduit or wiring as long as it is done to code and "inspected" along the way (ie: "rough in"). But any company would love to profit off this "gravy" work so you might have a hard time finding someone. And I don't know if being "commercial" and/or higher amps affects this...

As an aside, my 80yo uncle was a self-employed licensed electrician for years. He didn't get rich off it so he continues to work part-time at a Home Depot in FL a few days a week but also because he enjoys helping people and it keeps him active. Maybe there is a sage old-timer in one of your local suppliers that could direct you to someone that can help?

[mccutter]

PS: looking at your load sheet, IF I was an inspector I might question your need for a 400A service as it almost seems 200A will do ya. I understand it will be initially cheaper in the long run to install big and be able to add equipment later on. But the bigger service seems like it comes with bigger scrutiny, rightfully so. PPS: yes doing the math brings up over 200A so I get it...

3ph not available? Or too costly?

[allessence]

Originally Posted by mccutter

PS: looking at your load sheet, IF I was an inspector I might question your need for a 400A service as it almost seems 200A will do ya. I understand it will be initially cheaper in the long run to install big and be able to add equipment later on. But the bigger service seems like it comes with bigger scrutiny, rightfully so. PPS: yes doing the math brings up over 200A so I get it...

3ph not available? Or too costly?

If it were summer time.. I'd invite you uncle to come stay..


contractors in NE want their money.. I will have to hire someone to do the meter install and connect to the panels.. Once this happens I can fly under radar.. The inspector won't like it, but I won't tell him..

Once he comes and sees the work he should sign off on it easily..

The largest problem I run into is the shoddy work performance.. By the time the guy left he was impressed not only with the building/design and neat stuff but also all the metal work.

So they call it a 400amp service but in reality it is a 320amp service and then when derated it might be lucky to get a 300amp service.

I have to be careful because if I go over the 320amps into a real 400amp service they can make you run a metered cabinet or derate your electric use.

Then there is "Rate" High use and low use.. Day rate vs night rate.

I'd rather install big and never have to deal with it again.. Especially because things just go up in price.

3ph is way expensive.. Last time I spoke with someone who was getting it was 28K to connect.

By the time the electric is done I think it will be around 12K.. It really depends on what happens..

[allessence]

I'm actually struggling a bit.. I'm not wired for this kind of stuff..

I'm a factual person with a lets get it done perspective.. So, all this "Not knowing" what is what and who judges what and so on is just a load of horse pocky.

Really not my finest hour and find it totally frustrating..


This is that sort of thing I guess where just throwing money at something is a luxury.

[mccutter]

Originally Posted by allessence

If it were summer time.. I'd invite you uncle to come stay..

I'll mention it to him. His daughter's (my cousin's) husband has family in upstate NY and they used to up in the summers. CV cancelled last summer. Although spry (and born in Boston) I don't believe he is up for the cold weather anymore

It sounds like you have a handle on everything and have done your homework. Be patient--a lot of people are taking time off over the holidays. What are you using for temp power out there now?

[bunkclimber]

Jen yes you are correct in the disconnects,they are now required by NEC 2020 for emergency disconnecting means outside of the structure.
Some jurisdictions will allow the property owner to do their own electrical work some not..some allow service entrance work to be done as long as a certified private inspection agency signs off on the work.
Depends on your local govt if they have inspection authority or not.Some do some don't

[Ironman]

Jen, I don't know if you have a book like Electrical Code Simplified There must be something for the US code. You would need the commercial one.
These are great books and use pictorials and explain everything such as wiring a 3 way switch, bonding, grounding, to meet code. I'm sure our code is about the same as yours, with a few kinks.