Filling Oxygen cylinders

[GWIZ]

Originally Posted by cutter

Gwiz, the time to fill small cylinders appears to range from roughly 1 to 2 hours; that is less time than I would have guessed.

<> I also thought it would take longer

If I had to buy the equipment to do it I probably would have zero interest in it so long as there was a reasonable alternative. Again, it is not clear to me whether the concentrator can pump enough oxygen to allow it to be used as a supply to the patient at the same time it is filling cylinders but I doubt it.

<>If I read it right, the manuals
The compressor limits its input to 2L/min so you get 3L/min
"Looks like" there is a larger concentrator #10 that outputs 10L/min, no matter what the refill compressor will only pull 2L/min so you can have 5L/min if you need it while filling.

That would mean that someone like me would need two concentrators plus the compressor unit, putting the total cost at about $3000 plus whatever investment one had in cylinders.

<>I'm guessing more in the range of $1600 refurbished, maybe re-certified.

If there was no alternative then it could be a life saver but it takes just about as long to refill a tank as that tank can supply my use of it. This becomes something of a Catch 22.
<>read above


My cost to get small cylinders filled at an oxygen supply house is ten bucks.

<> I thought you pay 20% part B of Medicare?, that sounds a bit high.

When a small cylinder needs to be tested & re-certified there is an additional $16 charge.
<>That does not sound right, did you tell them it is Medicare and you have been with them past 36 months?


I think these are reasonable costs but only for having 2 or 3 backup cylinders in reserve for possible emergencies such as power failure, concentrator breakdown, etc.
Another real problem is the cost of the cylinders themselves if you have to pay retail for them. By the way, I was also told that old steel cylinders are pretty much useless because the valves

<>If you are considering a homefill compressor just maybe they will supply the cylinders under Medicare and you fill them your self.
At the same time maybe they have a concentrator that will work with homefill compressor.

generally seize to the threads & cannot be removed for testing by the supply house/testing facility.

Looks like "Looks like"
Medicare pays $125 a month to the supplier for 36 months then the supplier has to supply the equipment for the rest of a 5 year contract.
Looks like Medicare pays for rental of the equipment,
and you may have a part B deductible or/and 20%.
not sure if Medicare pays for Oxygen past 36 months, or its free after, up to the fifth year.

Looks like Medicare pays out $4500 in 36 months, and recycles after 5years.

1) what I circled in red makes me assume that you can use 3L/min or 5L/min with the #10 concentrartor while filling.
Again the Homefill compressor will only pull/fill at a rate around 2L/min.

EDIT... During the final 2 years, they can only bill Medicare for the maintenance on the equipment, so they receive even less.


BTW: Take your time and think it out.
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[cutter]

Originally Posted by GWIZ

Looks like "Looks like"
Medicare pays $125 a month to the supplier for 36 months then the supplier has to supply the equipment for the rest of a 5 year contract.
Looks like Medicare pays for rental of the equipment,
and you may have a part B deductible or/and 20%.
not sure if Medicare pays for Oxygen past 36 months, or its free after, up to the fifth year.

Looks like Medicare pays out $4500 in 36 months, and recycles after 5years.

1) what I circled in red makes me assume that you can use 3L/min or 5L/min with the #10 concentrartor while filling.
Again the Homefill compressor will only pull/fill at a rate around 2L/min.

EDIT... During the final 2 years, they can only bill Medicare for the maintenance on the equipment, so they receive even less.


BTW: Take your time and think it out.
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G, I am not considering this route at all. I have no intention of that & my input here has been just speculative or to post the local cost outside of Medicare if I want to maintain a couple of backup cylinders in reserve. The prices I posted were quoted me over the phone as out of pocket expenses & have nothing to do with what Medicare does or does not do in my case.

In the first place I dislike having to drag these cylinders around. They are awkward, aggravating and very limited in "run time" unless you want to muscle around the heavyweights. I view them as a necessary pain in the ass that I am forced to put up with in the the short term. Long term, I see them as sitting in the corner gathering dust & serving as emergency backup.

I would rather put my time & money into the quietest, most efficient portable concentrator I can find and then hope to God that my need for it lessens over the next few months.

[gimpyrobb]

Well after reading what's been posted, I think I will try to do this. We have an oxygen concentrator from when G-maw passed away so all I'll need is the compressor. I have 2 oxy tanks from military surplus that no one will refill even if I have them tested. Once I gather everything up, I will let you guys know how it turns out.

[cutter]

Originally Posted by gimpyrobb

Well after reading what's been posted, I think I will try to do this. We have an oxygen concentrator from when G-maw passed away so all I'll need is the compressor. I have 2 oxy tanks from military surplus that no one will refill even if I have them tested. Once I gather everything up, I will let you guys know how it turns out.

Oh good.
I'd like to see it done, I just don't want to do it myself.
You reminded me that I too have a big ol' oxygen cylinder, probably years expired, lying out on the west side of my house; it's been there for so long I forget about it, several years at least. Hmmm, at least I think it's still there.
Son Steve found it at a rent house he was cleaning out after the tenants skipped & left their trash.

[DeepSeaDynamo]

Originally Posted by gimpyrobb

Well after reading what's been posted, I think I will try to do this. We have an oxygen concentrator from when G-maw passed away so all I'll need is the compressor. I have 2 oxy tanks from military surplus that no one will refill even if I have them tested. Once I gather everything up, I will let you guys know how it turns out.

This may go without saying for some, but I just want to put it here because who knows who may read it. If you set something like this up make sure to O2 clean the fittings to make sure there is no residual oil on them, use soap and water but make sure it is something that will wash away any oils. Also make sure to use O2 rated valves, when I was offshore the rule was no ball valves on O2 because there was no telling what they used for seals in the WOG ball valves we had because they generally just came from the cheepest supplier.

O2 fires are no joke and dealing with high pressure O2 makes it that much more likely, we had someone, I think it was a rigger serving as a welder's helper severly burned by changing out the cutting O2 bottle with dirty/greasy hands. I guess there was a bit of a leak or a back flow when moving the regulator between bottles.

[cutter]

Originally Posted by DeepSeaDynamo

O2 fires are no joke and dealing with high pressure O2 makes it that much more likely, we had someone, I think it was a rigger serving as a welder's helper severly burned by changing out the cutting O2 bottle with dirty/greasy hands. I guess there was a bit of a leak or a back flow when moving the regulator between bottles.

Several years ago I was speaking with a respiratory therapist about possibly rigging up a respirator with supplied air to use when welding or grinding, etc.
She was nodding approvingly until I popped off something about how I could even add in some supplemental oxygen. That brought a horrified look and a strongly worded reply, ending with a tale about one of her patients who was wearing a cannula while cooking outdoors on his grill.
The cannula caught fire and melted into his face.

I used to wish I had a gas range in my kitchen; I especially wanted a nice old O'Keefe Merrit or something antiquey. Now I think Not Anymore.
There's a long list of things I think Not Anymore and Nevermore about these days.

[Whitetrash]

Originally Posted by DeepSeaDynamo

O2 fires are no joke and dealing with high pressure O2 makes it that much more likely, we had someone, I think it was a rigger serving as a welder's helper severly burned by changing out the cutting O2 bottle with dirty/greasy hands. I guess there was a bit of a leak or a back flow when moving the regulator between bottles.

We used LOX tanks on the burning machines/tables in the fab shop. If I remember correctly one DEWAR? held the equivalent of 14 T size standard tanks. There were different connecting valves on the tanks. Joby C. one of the older burning crew members walks in with a styrofoam coffee cup says watch this and proceeds to fill the cup partially full with LOX. He sets it on a pile of plates and flicks a match into it. It vaporized with a flash like an old time Kodak Flashcube. What oxygen that wasn't consumed flowed across the plate like fog. Thoroughly neat magic trick. But, it tuned me in to how dangerous the shit was.

[GWIZ]

Here is some pretty good information.
somewhere in the link gives you some fill times.

http://www.talkglass.com/wiki/index....nk_Fill_System

[GWIZ]

In my curiosity I looked into what makes a concentrator work and to my surprise it is pretty simple
They have two filters/ sieves that remove the nitrogen from the Oxygen.

The filters are filled with Zeolite basically a low cost desiccant type of rock. I can see Hospitals switching from Liquid oxygen to a very large concentrator for the whole building.

How an Oxygen Concentrator works.
http://www.oxygentimes.com/learn/how...ators-work.php
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from the link
"Sold and used as a pair, the columns contain the sieve beds that convert normal air with lower levels of oxygen concentration to supply a high concentration of oxygen. These sieve beds wear down after prolonged use."

https://www.inogen.com/product/g3-re...w-setting-1-5/

I'm not convinced they wear out but may get plugged up or saturated with water.

Replacements
https://www.atcmedical.com/Respirato...SABEgIjrPD_BwE
Replacements
http://www.directhomemedical.com/car...CABEgKkoPD_BwE

[cutter]

Thanks, G. There is information in those links that I hadn't read before.
I did not understand why there were 2 sieves.
Dr. Bob talked about the sieve several years ago but not in detail. I was amazed then, and I still am, that they can separate 2 gases that way.