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  #21  
Old 07-14-2021, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade Tree Welder View Post
Sorry McCutter you would be very very wrong on this topic.
I wouldn't say I'm "very very wrong" as I qualified the statement with a "lildabldooya" disclaimer... I edited out the offending term so as not to spread misinformation and I'm sorry if I mis-led you Bill. I DID provide data sheets for all to peruse and come to their own conclusion. In my defense, you did not back up your rebuttal with conductivity ratings of the various AS's.

In addition to the fouling of spark plug electrodes and O2 sensors from over-application, AS can also affect torque values leading to broken spark plugs (for example). Many "good" brands of spark plug mfgs plate the barrel and threads of plugs to avoid seizing from corrosion in an aluminum head. I'm sure a little AS on the threads wouldn't hurt although they say it is unnecessary.

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  #22  
Old 07-14-2021, 02:18 PM
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Torque is actually not the best way to measure proper fastener application. Bolt stretch is the ideal way to do that. However, torque is the easiest way to measure it, as most of the time you dont have access to both sides of the fastener and unless you have flat parallel surfaces on both ends of the bolt you cannot accurately measure bolt stretch.

However, the gold standard of engineer, The list of Shade's Golden Rules, is reduce torque values by 20% for lubricated fasteners. However not everyone agrees with me. Also the amount of reduction should include the surface area of thread engagement, surface roughness and minor diameter of the fasteners along with the modulus of elasticity of the fasteners. Others state 25%, but they are sissy's.

https://www.antiseize.com/PDFs/torqu...ifications.pdf

http://edge.rit.edu/edge/P14471/publ...ue%20Guide.pdf
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  #23  
Old 07-14-2021, 08:05 PM
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Ive been using on lugnuts for decades... and Ive been told not too.,.. in the 80s, I have a fleet of 30 trucks rolling around all lubed up..

The pics Ive included, was why I was looking to know,...

The one is a 4 or 5 gallon pail, of copper. The pints are Nickel, Im set for a couple lifetimes, maybe 10 ?

Ive got close to $40 wrapped up in all of that !
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  #24  
Old 07-15-2021, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade Tree Welder View Post
Torque is actually not the best way to measure proper fastener application. Bolt stretch is the ideal way to do that. However, torque is the easiest way to measure it, as most of the time you dont have access to both sides of the fastener and unless you have flat parallel surfaces on both ends of the bolt you cannot accurately measure bolt stretch.

However, the gold standard of engineer, The list of Shade's Golden Rules, is reduce torque values by 20% for lubricated fasteners. However not everyone agrees with me. Also the amount of reduction should include the surface area of thread engagement, surface roughness and minor diameter of the fasteners along with the modulus of elasticity of the fasteners. Others state 25%, but they are sissy's.

https://www.antiseize.com/PDFs/torqu...ifications.pdf

http://edge.rit.edu/edge/P14471/publ...ue%20Guide.pdf
Torque is Wildy variable. It’s simple and usually repeatable so it holds up in most OEM procedures.

This flywheel is 780 pounds. The bolts torque to 580nm and 70° It’s greased with molykote lube and torqued to an initial off 100 ft #. The digital readout of the torque wrench varies 530# to 620# after the torque angle is applied.
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  #25  
Old 07-15-2021, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windy_Acres View Post
Ive been using on lugnuts for decades... and Ive been told not too.,.. in the 80s, I have a fleet of 30 trucks rolling around all lubed up..

The pics Ive included, was why I was looking to know,...

The one is a 4 or 5 gallon pail, of copper. The pints are Nickel, Im set for a couple lifetimes, maybe 10 ?

Ive got close to $40 wrapped up in all of that !
I had a buddy that went to “tire college” and he was dead set against antisieze. I’m cannot figure out where that BS stems from but it’s completely wrong.

There’s always time for lubrication.
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  #26  
Old 07-15-2021, 01:08 PM
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When this discussion started, I checked the torque chart I use; it covers dry/lubed values, grade 2 thru 8, coarse/fine threads, and sizes from 4-40 up to 1-1/4" - typical torque spec for lugs on cars is around 75 foot pounds, and both dry and lubed values for grade 5 and up (I used 9/16 fine thread) are within the range.

Discovered the "elongation" truism about 10 years ago in an article about Olds's REAL "quad 4" engine - their "head bolts" go clear thru the engine and are "torqued" with a long-ass caliper (measuring actual bolt stretch). Interesting stuff... Steve
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  #27  
Old 07-15-2021, 01:48 PM
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I dont know where you are getting your lug nut torque values from but, my son's chevy hhr calls for 110lbs of torque, my wife's mazda cx-5 calls for 108lbs of torque, and my dodge ram 1500 calls for 120lbs of torque.
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  #28  
Old 07-15-2021, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astronut View Post
I dont know where you are getting your lug nut torque values from but, my son's chevy hhr calls for 110lbs of torque, my wife's mazda cx-5 calls for 108lbs of torque, and my dodge ram 1500 calls for 120lbs of torque.
My 2004 dodge 3500 calls for 120-150 for coned lug nuts. I stick with 120, as I use a light lube on the studs.
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  #29  
Old 07-15-2021, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astronut View Post
I dont know where you are getting your lug nut torque values from but, my son's chevy hhr calls for 110lbs of torque, my wife's mazda cx-5 calls for 108lbs of torque, and my dodge ram 1500 calls for 120lbs of torque.
All my vehicles call for 100-105 ft*lbs. So I run at 100. Wheel lugs are
generally stronger than your standard grade 8. I have never had a wheel
come off.

When I have a shop rotate and balance I always back them off and re-torque.
Most are either too tight or too loose, GTI is the only shop I use locally that I
don't recheck at home but I do re-torque when I get a hundred or so miles on
them.
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  #30  
Old 07-15-2021, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinDodge View Post
Torque is Wildy variable.
It’s simple and usually repeatable so it holds up in most OEM procedures.
^^^ what he said.

Neal, stop using facts and logic, you're going to hurt somebody's feelings.

It is simple and easy... Yet routinely fucked up.
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