Shop Floor Talk  

Go Back   Shop Floor Talk > Welding and Metalworking Forums > Welding

SFT Search:   
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 01-02-2016, 01:56 PM
cutter's Avatar
cutter cutter is offline
Curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Lubbock,Texas
Posts: 32,833
Default

Shawn, please read this page of our FAQ explaining why we do not use off-site hosting or embedded images.

My father bought 30 of those Westinghouse generators when a nearby airbase closed following WWII. He told me he built ten welders over the years, all trailer mounted, and still had one of them parked on a vacant lot across the street from his house when he died. It was powered by a little 4 cylinder water-cooled tractor engine. I had a brief impulse to try to save it but the tires were rotting & I had no place to store it at the time, etc. He used those welders mainly to weld casing on irrigation wells & had grown to prefer them to any other welder for that purpose, probably because that's how he learned to do it in the first place when he started drilling wells in about 1950. He drilled the first irrigation well in Hardeman county Texas and his second one was in the farm where I grew up.

He had 2 of the generators out in his shop when he died and I still have the one I brought home with me about 25 years ago. As Gerry said, I do remember they required at least three stout belts, 4 is better. If I recall correctly, Dad used 5-6 inch diameter pulleys to get enough belt wrap to maintain "traction".
Looks like you have yourself a fun project there but I agree that you'll need to upgrade your pulley & belt configuration to make it work correctly.
__________________
cutter
Housekeeping Staff: the Gatekeeper
Director of Policy, Syntax and Grammar (by appointment)

"Dr. Chandran, will I dream?"

Just Keep Walking

"Passionate hatred can give meaning and purpose to an empty life. Thus people haunted by the purposelessness of their lives try to find a new content not only by dedicating themselves to a holy cause but also by nursing a fanatical grievance. A mass movement offers them unlimited opportunities for both."
Eric Hoffer The True Believer 1951
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-02-2016, 02:01 PM
cutter's Avatar
cutter cutter is offline
Curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Lubbock,Texas
Posts: 32,833
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
I got one of those welders. Says 300 amps on the label. Been keeping my eye out for a 12hp gas engine to run it.
Chris, I suspect you're going to need more horsepower than that.
__________________
cutter
Housekeeping Staff: the Gatekeeper
Director of Policy, Syntax and Grammar (by appointment)

"Dr. Chandran, will I dream?"

Just Keep Walking

"Passionate hatred can give meaning and purpose to an empty life. Thus people haunted by the purposelessness of their lives try to find a new content not only by dedicating themselves to a holy cause but also by nursing a fanatical grievance. A mass movement offers them unlimited opportunities for both."
Eric Hoffer The True Believer 1951
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-02-2016, 02:17 PM
milomilo's Avatar
milomilo milomilo is online now
Auction Addict
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wheatland, Wyoming
Posts: 15,050
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutter View Post
Chris, I suspect you're going to need more horsepower than that.
15hp??????
__________________
Chris

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Groucho Marx
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-02-2016, 03:23 PM
cutter's Avatar
cutter cutter is offline
Curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Lubbock,Texas
Posts: 32,833
Default

Chris, I don't really know any more than I "think" I recall from my dad's experience but I believe he never used less than 20-25 hp. They were all 4 cylinder engines. He had one generator rigged to quick mount to his little homemade tractor that we called the Doodlebug, powered by a military surplus Jeep engine. The generator was a rear mount & ran off the power takeoff.
I can remember seeing him use it & that little engine would lug noticeably when that arc kicked in. I mean I could hear the governor kick in.

I have very little experience with gennys but I do have a Briggs/Generac in the shop, I think it's an 8000 watt, 13,500 "starting watts" with a 15hp Briggs on it.
The generator on it is nowhere near the beast that one of these old Westinghouse units is.

If I was in the mood to build my own welder I would not be comfortable with the notion of using a lawnmower engine.
I'm sure Gerry can tell you more definitely what's required.
__________________
cutter
Housekeeping Staff: the Gatekeeper
Director of Policy, Syntax and Grammar (by appointment)

"Dr. Chandran, will I dream?"

Just Keep Walking

"Passionate hatred can give meaning and purpose to an empty life. Thus people haunted by the purposelessness of their lives try to find a new content not only by dedicating themselves to a holy cause but also by nursing a fanatical grievance. A mass movement offers them unlimited opportunities for both."
Eric Hoffer The True Believer 1951
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-02-2016, 04:03 PM
Shopmonkey's Avatar
Shopmonkey Shopmonkey is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Jamestown, N.D. USA
Posts: 1,279
Default

The 25 hp requirement may be about right. Dad said that, before our farm got REA, Grandpa had one of those generators with brackets to mount on our B John Deere tractor and ran off the belt pulley. Rated at 33 hp, on the belt, Dad said my uncle could really get that tractor to talkin' when welding heavy stuff.
__________________
Many times, failure is success in disguise.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-02-2016, 04:22 PM
LKeithR's Avatar
LKeithR LKeithR is offline
Hey...wait...is there a prize?
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Langley, B.C.
Posts: 5,052
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shopmonkey View Post
..really get that tractor to talkin' when welding heavy stuff.
Nothin' like the sound of an old John Deere in full chat mode...

And I agree with the others that 15 HP ain't gonna be enough. I can't recall seeing one of those things that wasn't powered by a 4 cyl. engine. Stepping up to 25 HP will probably be enough--Guru Gerry will know for sure...
__________________
Keith

Measure twice and cut once...or...wait, was that the other way around?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-02-2016, 05:20 PM
Ironman's Avatar
Ironman Ironman is offline
Iron Modification Investigator
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Warburg, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 13,710
Default

28 volts x 300 amps = 8400 watts
you will get about 450 watts per gasoline horsepower so 18 hp is the minimum requirement. On a welder more is better. A lag in response or an rpm drop means your arc will be unstable and stick. That V4 is about right.

Take the popular old Lincoln Pipeliner producing 200 amps from 35 horse Red Seal engine. Way overkill? No, The excess hp makes it rock stable and the current output unstoppable.

The other thing that demands power here is the belt ratio. You need some balls to drive up a mountain in high gear, and that is what you are doing by gearing up 1000 rpm higher then the engine. That gearing sucks up engine torque.
__________________
Gerry
You got freedom of speech, if you don't say too much.
Aaron Neville

"I must abide by my core values, my ethical responsibilities and constitutional obligations. There can be a cost to acting on one’s principles, but there is a bigger cost to abandoning them.” Jane Philpott
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-02-2016, 05:46 PM
milomilo's Avatar
milomilo milomilo is online now
Auction Addict
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wheatland, Wyoming
Posts: 15,050
Default

Looking like an old Jeep 4 cylinder may be the ticket.
__________________
Chris

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Groucho Marx
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-02-2016, 09:13 PM
SmokinDodge's Avatar
SmokinDodge SmokinDodge is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 5,869
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Looking like an old Jeep 4 cylinder may be the ticket.
Or flat belt off your M.

Sent from my ipotato
__________________
The guy that said money can't buy happiness never bought a tank of fuel for a turbo diesel.............
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-03-2016, 10:28 AM
ShawnR ShawnR is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 16
Default

Cutter, sorry about the photos. I did read the faq, but then I clicked insert and it allowed me. I missed the part about uploading from Manage attachments. Thanks for fixing it up.

I fired the unit up yesterday and checked for belt slippage. ...no load and it slipped so off to find proper belts tomorrow. I made up some bolts to push the unit back for tensioning.

I also checked voltages. ..around 28 -30 no load so it is in line with what has been mentioned.

Thanks and I will report back when new belts are installed.

Cheers
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
old welder, vf4, wisconsin

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Web Search:

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.