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  #11  
Old 10-27-2018, 03:30 PM
Steeveedee Steeveedee is offline
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I'll see what I can do with pics. I finally have a cell phone that I can take decent pictures with. I get bagged on occasionally at wood working forums for having so few projects posted. I've been working with wood since I was a kid, and even have a simple bowl I carved in '65, when I was 13 YO.

FWIW, I wonder if O1 is the best choice. I've seen other people make carving tools with it, but maybe there is another choice that might be better. I'm not heavily invested at $13 and change for the four rods I bought.
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  #12  
Old 10-30-2018, 02:03 PM
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O1 is very forgiving to heat treat, it hardens easily and tempers at a lower range of temps than more complex alloys. I think it would be a good choice for making carving tools with minimal equipment.

I agree with the others that you should bend it hot, let it cool slowly. Do your grinding to 90% finished shape, then harden it. I would try tempering it around 400deg F in an oven for an hour, let it sit for a day and that do another hour at 400 degrees.
01 is a very fine grained steel and will sharpen up to a very nice edge for woodworking.
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  #13  
Old 10-30-2018, 02:43 PM
Steeveedee Steeveedee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Shade View Post
O1 is very forgiving to heat treat, it hardens easily and tempers at a lower range of temps than more complex alloys. I think it would be a good choice for making carving tools with minimal equipment.

I agree with the others that you should bend it hot, let it cool slowly. Do your grinding to 90% finished shape, then harden it. I would try tempering it around 400deg F in an oven for an hour, let it sit for a day and that do another hour at 400 degrees.
01 is a very fine grained steel and will sharpen up to a very nice edge for woodworking.
Thanks for the info! I see that generally people use a forge for gradual cooling, but I don't have one. I did see where a guy stuffed the part into some ashes to cool. I can see that ashes would be fairly insulating. Any thoughts on that?
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  #14  
Old 10-30-2018, 03:51 PM
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If you need to drill some holes or shape it with a file after bending, then the slower you can cool it off the better.

The traditional method is to bury the piece in vermiculite or ashes, as these are very insulating and also don't burn.

I usually put it in my forge, shut the flame off, block the door and come back a couple hours later, letting it cool down the same rate as the forge which has a lot of mass. Its easier than keeping a bucket of ashes or vermiculite around.

If you don't need to drill any holes, and have a grinder to shape it with, then just letting it air cool after bending would be sufficient. It will probably be too hard to easily drill a hole in it and would dull a file quickly but won't be any trouble for a grinder.
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  #15  
Old 10-30-2018, 05:52 PM
Steeveedee Steeveedee is offline
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OK, that's great! I want to make two bends at 90° so that the handle of the carving tool is offset from the cutting edge. This way I can get into tight spots in carvings. I have some in the full size, but they are too long. Plus, I need right and left skew and a straight edge. So, altogether, at least 6 chisels, since I'll want different offsets. No holes. They will be glued into the handles, so once I make the bends I can quench and temper them. I bought enough rod to make them at least two times over if I break 'em. They're only for shaving off wood, do don't need to be hella strong. The metal store is about 25 miles from me so I scheduled the visit for after I left the gun range a couple weeks ago. Saved on gas and time that way.

I'm thinking that I don't want to make that many handles, since it is a lot of lathe work, and to buy them is about $10 each. Does anyone know what company makes a handle that has 3/16" and/or 1/4" collets? I could just put the blades in that kind of handle.
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  #16  
Old 11-01-2018, 08:32 AM
threepiece threepiece is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWIZ View Post
I would just clamp it in a vise and bend it, maybe use a hammer to get a tight bend.
This is a common way that others bend rod and such but there are some undesirable consequences that can result from this method.

One consequence is creating an unsightly tooling mark on the inside corner from contact with the vise jaw. This tooling mark will also act as a stress riser that will likely develope into a crack if the part were subject to sufficient loading. A block with the desired radius placed in the vice can be used to eliminate the tooling mark.

When bending metal in this manner I often recommend preloading before applying hammer blows. This means applying pressure to the bending process but not enough to actually cause bending. While the part is being deflected, hammer blows are applied near the "bend zone" with a suitable corking tool. If done correctly this will result in a uniform bend radius with little or no hammer marks.
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Last edited by threepiece; 11-01-2018 at 09:24 AM.
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  #17  
Old 11-01-2018, 03:25 PM
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Can you bend to slightly less than 90 degrees and still get your offset? If you are tapping the tool, I would think 90 degrees would tend to be a bit springier with more deflection.

Sort of like this ...

As for handles, there are a couple companies that make file handles pretty cheap, in many sizes. There are adjustable ones as well.

https://www.gesswein.com/p-9984-skro...SABEgKyvfD_BwE

Pic is one of the screw-on types.
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Last edited by USMCPOP; 11-01-2018 at 03:30 PM.
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  #18  
Old 11-02-2018, 05:07 PM
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W1 or O1 would work depending on what hardening medium you want to use and the overall hardness desired..

W1 will harden more so will have a higher rockwell hardness vs O1 but W1 will have a tendency to distort more vs O1 which will be a little softer and is designed to minimize distortion when hardened..

I harden nearly everything in water but also know there will be a failure here or there with water cracks if I am not paying enough attention..

If you are selling tooling.. It needs to be tempered.. Have a tool break in use can be a liability nightmare.. Especially if you warn them the tooling shouldn't be used a certain way..

This will just fuel the Lawyer since you start off with a known failure mode but still sold them.. Negligence is what they get everybody on..
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  #19  
Old 11-03-2018, 08:46 AM
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In my experience, O1 and W1 can be easily shaped with common hand tools like files and hacksaws in the soft condition as supplied. After hardening, those tools will not cut the drill rod, so stones, diamond hones and grinding are required.

The shape will change little in the hardening process, so hand stoning can be all that is needed to touch up the edge after heat treatment.

I have not bothered with slow cooling the items I have made. I shaped cold, quenched from red/nonmagnetic, then polished and tempered to straw/light blue oxidation colour with a torch. For maximum control in tempering, I might used the yard sale toaster oven I have. Soak the item at 450-500 in the toaster oxpven for an hour or so, then shut off the oven and leave the part in overnight.
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  #20  
Old 11-05-2018, 09:39 PM
Steeveedee Steeveedee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMCPOP View Post
Can you bend to slightly less than 90 degrees and still get your offset? If you are tapping the tool, I would think 90 degrees would tend to be a bit springier with more deflection.

Sort of like this ...

As for handles, there are a couple companies that make file handles pretty cheap, in many sizes. There are adjustable ones as well.

https://www.gesswein.com/p-9984-skro...SABEgKyvfD_BwE

Pic is one of the screw-on types.
Well, I'm not married to a precise angle, so maybe less of a bend may be beneficial, in terms of stiffness. I'll look over their site in a bit. I'm catching up on many sites and my email after taking the wife to the beach camping for the last four days. I'll check out their stock for what I might need. If I DO sell the steel part, the buyers will be responsible for the handles, though I would provide them with a source. The less I do outside the actual tool part, the better, as far as I am concerned. I'm not in this for the money, actually. I just want to make a set of tools that will do what I want. What this means is, if I DO generate some interest, I have NO interest in making tools for people on the internet...meaning that if someone here wanted to make them, I couldn't care less. I honestly don't know how much demand there is. I'm retired/burned out on designing and/or making tools. Maybe something could come of it, but given the number of people who participate in the wood carving "business", I wouldn't expect much.

As far as liability goes, these tools would be used for carving wood, and the likelihood for someone doing something stupid like using a mallet is low. Though I DO have to admit that I have observed one of the guys bending his tools quite a bit while carving, that is quite rare. Maybe there is a niche market for a real metal-worker here! There is a guy who used to make micro-carving tools who quit doing it. Check around, interested people.

Last edited by Steeveedee; 11-05-2018 at 09:56 PM.
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