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  #41  
Old 02-09-2019, 02:49 AM
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I'm beginning to see this thread will have wheels, so maybe it should have been in the shop construction area.
Done.
And you've inspired me to also finally move ORF's rambling forever thread.
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  #42  
Old 02-09-2019, 08:28 AM
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Done.
And you've inspired me to also finally move ORF's rambling forever thread.
You da man, Rod!
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  #43  
Old 02-09-2019, 08:58 AM
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Still Waiting on a quote from an ICF guy.

But I thought I would post some info on Screw piles, as they differ from what is commonly known as piles. Piles are for example 6" sched 40 pipe driven into the ground with a hydraulic hammer or a pile driver for the large or deep ones.
This was my original plan A.
This is common in the North as trailers and buildings have a terrible time with permafrost heaving or melting, it comes and goes.
They used to pour a 5 gal bucket of diesel into the dirt around each pile to prevent frost gripping the pipe and lifting it, and the objective was to find rock at the bottom and grout in the pipe to the rock so frost could not pull up the piling. In some cases they were unsuccessful, and houses would lift a couple feet on a side. And then some environmentalist figured diesel was bad for you so that was banned.

The screw type is rotated into the earth and will resist frost pull very well, as well as bear weight.
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Their development and use is largely attributed to engineers from the UK and the USA. The origins and rise of screw-pile and screw-cylinder foundations are reviewed from an his-torical perspective focusing on the period from 1836 to 1900 They made the construction of lighthouses possible in locations where there would otherwise undoubtedly have been great loss of life and property; they made the construction of bridges possible in locations where they might not have been constructed for another 40 years; they made the construction of ocean-front pleasure piers an industry that would irreversibly change the leisure time of an entire nation.
During the period of settlement of America and Canada, the English technology was to use concrete and to this day it retains a high place in construction here. When Australia was settled the screw pile had been invented by an Irishman named Mitchell, and as the settlers had nothing in the line of quarries and concrete plants, the screw pile foundation took off and has the most usage world wide in Australia, and secondly in Canada.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Pile drawing and pile layout.pdf (1.20 MB, 44 views)
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  #44  
Old 02-09-2019, 11:56 AM
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That pile layout ought to work like a bandit. I'm surprised they don't make the Okies in tornado alley use those to keep all the modular and mobile homes from rolling all over every time a tornado even gets close to them.
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  #45  
Old 02-09-2019, 01:53 PM
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...But I thought I would post some info on Screw piles...
I gotta say that before I ran into Gerry I had never heard of screw piles. They are definitely not common here on the coast, probably because we don't have issues with deep frost so ordinary concrete foundations work fine. I don't even know if any local building codes allow their use. Under the right circumstances they would certainly be a lot simpler than a full concrete foundation and 28 kips of load bearing capacity per unit is pretty impressive as well...
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  #46  
Old 02-09-2019, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by LKeithR View Post
I gotta say that before I ran into Gerry I had never heard of screw piles. They are definitely not common here on the coast, probably because we don't have issues with deep frost so ordinary concrete foundations work fine. I don't even know if any local building codes allow their use. Under the right circumstances they would certainly be a lot simpler than a full concrete foundation and 28 kips of load bearing capacity per unit is pretty impressive as well...
They are the most commonly used type and are also variants of... to secure a mobile home around here the only problem is in areas where they are not required to be inspected you can always count on them being done half-assed at best by the set up people just so they can get out of the job quicker and are more for a high wind or tornado hold down precaution.
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  #47  
Old 02-09-2019, 06:02 PM
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In the 1900's according to pictures, they had cast iron pipe with 6ft diameter flights and a bunch of men on 10 ft bars on a capstan type wheel to screw the things into the ground, and in some cases did this off barges.

The torque testing was also something comical. But when we see people in Indonesia or somewhere doing the same sort of thing we laugh, but way back when....

And here is the estimate for a basement with ICF blocks.
A shade under $30,000
And the screw piling at $6810 +10 hrs labor estimated at 128/hr.
Decisions, decisions...
Attached Files
File Type: doc est for basement Nudura ICF 08-02-19 .doc (47.0 KB, 12 views)
File Type: xls Screw Pile 20x76,SRI,Quote,2019.xls (297.0 KB, 8 views)
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Last edited by Ironman; 02-09-2019 at 06:17 PM.
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  #48  
Old 02-09-2019, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by LKeithR View Post
I gotta say that before I ran into Gerry I had never heard of screw piles. They are definitely not common here on the coast, probably because we don't have issues with deep frost so ordinary concrete foundations work fine. I don't even know if any local building codes allow their use. Under the right circumstances they would certainly be a lot simpler than a full concrete foundation and 28 kips of load bearing capacity per unit is pretty impressive as well...
As they are engineered that takes president over the wishes of beaurocraps.
I can tell you where they would shine...Cloverdale. It's sitting on a peat bog about 20 ft deep, and I remember the guy at Accurpress telling us about the huge foundations for their 24ft horizontal shapers.
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  #49  
Old 02-09-2019, 07:31 PM
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It would run about 13K for a 22x76 basement here. Around $1500 to seal the exterior.
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Last edited by milomilo; 02-09-2019 at 07:41 PM.
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  #50  
Old 02-09-2019, 08:09 PM
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It would run about 13K for a 22x76 basement here. Around $1500 to seal the exterior.
That seems fair, but here we pay about $270yd for the regular stuff. The carbon tax idea is foolish, but when you consider we have lots of infrastructure to repair.

I think the cost of concrete is much higher here. And once they figure out a carbon tax for concrete expect it to really take off. They will base it on "if you cared at all for your world, why would you build with concrete" because making lime is a high CO2 emitter when being manufactured. When you figure that limestone is created in the ocean by absorbing cO2 from the atmosphere, then it follows that in order to make lime, you heat and drive off the cO2. And the fuel to heat the rock adds to it.
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