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Old 08-07-2005, 01:41 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Lubbock,Texas
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posted by Cutter 02-25-2004

quote:
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Originally posted by: Junk
Thanks Franz. That's what has me worried. So based on everything I'm reading, no matter how much money I spend, it's impossible to get him a good vise any longer. Unless of course I find a used one sitting in a field somewhere and clean it up. This is really frustrating.
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Junk,

My take on it is a little different than yours. I don't think it is impossible to get a good new one although it is possible to buy new and NOT get an authentic one. I think what you need is some communication with buyers of new ones and used ones to find out how to get the good ones. Or IOW's, find a reputable dealer somehow, probably by finding his customers. And don't discard the idea of finding a used one, either through a dealer or an individual. They are obviously out there and if I were your brother, I would appreciate the gift of a used one even more than a new one. But that's just me; I like old things with character better than new, maybe because I have the notion that the old tools carry the spirit of the men and of the era in which they were made. Several people have been talking about plant closings and how easy it is to find auctions and bargain liquidations these days. Give that some investigation, too.

I also want to say that I am impressed by your generous intent in the matter & I hope you don't abandon your quest. I think you just need to find a different point of view & set a new "strategery". Give it a fair chance & your vise might just find you.


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posted by: Junk

Thanks Cutter.

I'm having a tough time finding liquidations and sales but continue to try. It's almost become a part time job at this point. Will continue and am not complaining about it.

Will continue to search. Thanks.


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posted by: Ryel

what is the big difference between the mechanics vise and the machinist vise? The price is double for the same size.

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posted by: wood-n steel

The Machinists vice is built to much closer tolerances when bolted down to the bead of a machine The fixed jaw will be perpendicular to the bead and the base will be parallel to the bead. It is used fore machining. Whereas the mechanics vise is used to hold parts while you beat the living **** out of them or weld sump thing or put the torches to that part that wont come apart.

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posted by Cutter 02-26-2004

If you read the descriptions, the machinist's vise is stated to be twice as strong
as the mechanic's, several differences like that.



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posted by: OlPilot

On that web page that Franz previously referenced for vises, note that some are listed at 30 ksi tensile, others at 60 ksi. The 30 ksi ones are sorry-assed cast iron. Just try beating on the anvil of one for any length of time with your sledgeomatic and see what happens!

The 60 ksi vises should at least be cast steel. But it's not just a question of tensile strength differences here, there's another metallurgical parameter to consider called fracture toughness. Fracture toughness is measured on V-notched samples using a Charpy impact tester. Cast iron, with all the carbide precipitates in it, is brittle. It's hard and is wonderful in compression, but not in tension or where impact or cyclic loads are applied.

Some years ago, I had a problem with planetary gear trains failing in DC-10 lower belly compartment cargo power drive units. I called the manufacturer in Germany and asked their chief engineer what material he had selected for these small and very highly loaded gears. "17-4 PH" he replied. "Thomas", I said, "When was the last time you checked MIL-Handbook-5?" "Why", he said. "Well", I said, "If you don't heat treat 17-4PH (a precipitation hardening stainless steel), you've got peanut butter. If you do heat treat it, you've got glass. Neither one is suitable for impact loaded gears." I got him to change the material to a 300 series steel. Expensive and harder than the hubs of hell for wear resistance, but it also had fracture toughness. The problem went away.

Maybe someday the Chicom manufactures of drill bits, vises and such will learn that just because something looks the same, it ain't necessarily so. When they do wake up, and change to better materials, the prices are bound to go up.

---------------------------------------------------
I remember when sex was safe and flying was dangerous.



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posted by: Newb

Well, based on everyone's feedback, I started pickup up the weekly newspaper to find a vise.

Found a local auto repair guy going out of business.

This is what I got (film getting developed, will post pics when I get them back).

4 vises, 1 a Reed that opens about 12", 2 Columbians 1 opens about 7" and one about 5", and one old Wilton that opens about 11". Also got a box of exhaust clamps and hangers. Older Baldor 6" benchtop grinder.

Total cost was $100. I'm jacked up. Thought I'd share to let you know the deals are out there. So don't give up.

____Newb's signature_______________

I am a total newbie.



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posted by: Franz

Newb, look in your rearview mirror for flashing lights, the cops might be on you for highway robbery.
The Columbians are Wilton's second line, like Blue Point is Snap-On's second line.
Reed is an old machinery manufacturer.
You scored a lifetime supply of vises for $100-, now all you gotta deal with is the hernia you got runnin off with them.

____Franz's signature_______________

Will the last weldOr leaving the Hobart board please turn off the lights.



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posted by: Banzaitoyota

DAMN!!!! Good deal, I'll give you 40 for one of them.

____Banzaitoyota's signature_______________

Hobart Handler 175
75/25, argon and Tri-Mix

Mazda Rx-7's, RX-4 and a 3 rotor 20B
92 Dodge D250 CTD
Kubota G1800
New Holland TC35D


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posted by: Newb

Thanks Franz and thanks Banzaitoyota. Will post some pics when I get them. Banzai, wait till you see the pics, then let me know if you want any.


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posted by: Trevor

lets see some more pics of this vice after ELECTROLYTIC derusting and of those vices you got at the sale newb


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posted by: Newb

I'm getting my pics back tomorrow, so will post 'em up. They ain't pretty, but they will definitely last longer than I will or any of those chicomwaneeseposjobs out there.

Maybe TSP would work too for those of us that don't have the knowledge for electolysis. I didn't do that though. I just wiped 'em off and figured I'll use them as is.


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posted by: Franz

TSP is a non contestant.
For electrolytic cleaning the electrolyte is Sodium Silicate.


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posted by Cutter 03-07-2004

Old man Wilton got dunked into the vat yesterday and started on the road to recovery, I hope. This picture shows the results after about 18 hours into the rust removal process. Nastier looking than anything I've done before, but then this was a really rusty old vise, too.




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posted by: Hickey

Looks like some good soup. Will this process remove chrome too?


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posted by: Mike W

You can add acid to water to speed up the process and take off chrome also.


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posted by: Newb

Mike, what type of acid and how much? That looks like a nasty dish my wife would try serve up.

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posted by: Franz

BOYS, do NOT add acid to this process, acid will neutralize the electrolyte.
Cutter the tank looks about right, and I hope you remembered to do it in a well ventilated area.
Come to think of it Cutter, it would be better if you just crate that vise up and ship it to me so I can give it a decent burial at the end of a bench.
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Last edited by cutter; 08-07-2005 at 08:46 PM.