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-   -   Another machine coming home (https://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53349)

OldRedFord 11-05-2021 09:58 PM

Another machine coming home
 
Tomorrow im headed to pick up a 16 inch universal Gould & Eberheart universal tool room shaper. :D

clive 11-05-2021 10:51 PM

Always enjoyed using the shaper.

Shade Tree Welder 11-05-2021 10:56 PM

There is a saying you can make anything with a shaper but money... :rolleyes:

greywynd 11-06-2021 02:57 PM

That’ll be a heavy one…


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OldRedFord 11-06-2021 09:53 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Will unload tomorrow

Shade Tree Welder 11-06-2021 10:55 PM

https://www.freepatentsonline.com/2237466.pdf

Older than any of my machine tools...

OldRedFord 11-07-2021 06:31 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Got it home and in the shop. Making chips now.

milomilo 11-07-2021 07:57 PM

What shape is the vise in?

OldRedFord 11-07-2021 08:20 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by milomilo (Post 776429)
What shape is the vise in?

Pretty good I think.

Can anyone here date the machine? The serial number is 2710A3?

Shade could be close though. I THINK the motor is 1942 if you look at the serial on it.

milomilo 11-07-2021 09:53 PM

An hour or so with some scotchbrite and WD-40 should clean the surface pretty good.:)

OldRedFord 11-08-2021 05:13 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Got it tucked away in a corner for now.

I have a machine trade in the works. My Hybco grinder for a Cincinnati 9x48 radial drill.

If I can find a trailer to haul the drill on.


Seems like I can't rent a flat deck trailer. :rolleyes:

GWIZ 11-08-2021 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldRedFord (Post 776457)
Got it tucked away in a corner for now.

I have a machine trade in the works. My Hybco grinder for a Cincinnati 9x48 radial drill.

I don't know what the Hybco grinder is, I would hard pressed to get rid of it.
radial drills come in go..... not so much on that type of grinder

OldRedFord 11-08-2021 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GWIZ (Post 776459)
I don't know what the Hybco grinder is, I would hard pressed to get rid of it.
radial drills come in go..... not so much on that type of grinder

You can make your own endmills with it. I feel it's overly complicated for anything I'd ever use it for. I mostly got it for the tool cabinet that came with it. That stays. :)

Norm W 11-08-2021 09:47 PM

You could sharpen all the milling cutters that you bought. :D

GWIZ 11-09-2021 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldRedFord (Post 776463)
You can make your own endmills with it. I feel it's overly complicated for anything I'd ever use it for. I mostly got it for the tool cabinet that came with it. That stays. :)

Don't cut your self short.

Grinders are not my field but they are not all that complicated ... BUT always wear a face shield!.... the stones can and will explode and take your face off!


In one of your threads you need a dovetail cutter (special angle) to make a Gib for your mill, you acquired a pallet of angled cutters as I see it you may be able to regrind the angle you need on one of the cutters you have, hard to tell but this grinder may do it.

Looks like a motorized spin fixture that would be nice to grind hardened shafts , maybe punch pins, spools for hydraulic valves.

If the grinder is in good shape best to keep it.
I would think you are more likely to have people that need a hardened shaft sized than needing a hole drilled with a radial drill.

Shade Tree Welder 11-09-2021 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm W (Post 776466)
You could sharpen all the milling cutters that you bought. :D

That is what I was thinking resharpening cutting tools, too.

greywynd 11-09-2021 08:57 AM

As memtioned, it’s a tool and cutter grinder. Making a cutter from scratch on one is doable, but a lengthy process, there are specialty machines out there for that.

Resharpening is where they shine, if: 1.) you have all the parts and pieces required
2.) you know what you’re doing, and really understand cutting tool geometry.

The last place I worked that was setup for it was the diecasting shop, even with likely 30 machinists (manual and cnc) they phased it out, was more cost efficient to buy new at that time. As prices are steeply increasing, that may change.

There are resharpening services out there too, many you can ship stuff to and they ship back when it’s done. They also can often modify existing tools for a specific use.


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mccutter 11-09-2021 01:27 PM

I agree with the others to hold onto the grinder especially with all that big iron you have. It will be good for sharpening bits. I don't know what the drill press is but a mill will do everything a big ol' drill press will do. I've seen 4 station production drill presses go for less than $100 at auction as CNC has made them obsolete...

toprecycler 11-09-2021 03:07 PM

My vote would be to keep grinder too. You are collecting old machines, I believe to help keep the past from being scrapped. And you want to learn the ways of the old. That grinder is one of the old ways.


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OldRedFord 11-09-2021 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toprecycler (Post 776475)
My vote would be to keep grinder too. You are collecting old machines, I believe to help keep the past from being scrapped. And you want to learn the ways of the old. That grinder is one of the old ways.


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There's another cutter grinder I need to bring home that was in the shop with the lathes came out of. Very close to a K.O Lee BA960. Also have a pending trade for my Hammond Mercury Trim-O-Saw for a Hammond carbide tool grinder.

GWIZ 11-10-2021 01:55 AM

That motorized spin fixture will be very hard to replace.

OldRedFord 11-26-2021 09:49 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by greywynd (Post 776470)
As memtioned, it’s a tool and cutter grinder. Making a cutter from scratch on one is doable, but a lengthy process, there are specialty machines out there for that.

Resharpening is where they shine, if: 1.) you have all the parts and pieces required
2.) you know what you’re doing, and really understand cutting tool geometry.

This is one of those specialty machines. Made for making taps and end mills. Not so much on sharpening horizontal mill cutters or grinding lathe tool bits.

I've got a Cincinatti # 2 cutter grinder that's sitting in the shop my lathes came out of. Just waiting for me to pay for it and come get it.

In addition to the radial drill im also bringing back a SIP 3K jig bore machine.

Shade Tree Welder 11-26-2021 10:09 PM

Tim did you win a lottery?

LKeithR 11-27-2021 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greywynd (Post 776470)
As memtioned, it’s a tool and cutter grinder. Making a cutter from scratch on one is doable, but a lengthy process, there are specialty machines out there for that.

Resharpening is where they shine, if: 1.) you have all the parts and pieces required
2.) you know what you’re doing, and really understand cutting tool geometry.

The last place I worked that was setup for it was the diecasting shop, even with likely 30 machinists (manual and cnc) they phased it out, was more cost efficient to buy new at that time. As prices are steeply increasing, that may change.

There are resharpening services out there too, many you can ship stuff to and they ship back when it’s done. They also can often modify existing tools for a specific use.

Sharpening tools is one thing, making your own is another thing entirely. This is 2021 and HSS is pretty much obsolete except when it comes to endmills. And believe me, the metallurgy that goes into modern endmills is far advanced beyond that of any basic tool steel that you can buy over the counter.

Buying new and sharpening is fine but trying to make your own; forget it. Sure it might be fun to tinker with making tools but every hour you waste doing that is shop time that you can't use to make chips and money.

I'm 75 so I guess that makes me old school but I've certainly learned that the old ways aren't always the best. When I first started I ground all my own HSS tooling ( and hated every minute of it) but when carbide inserts started to be available more readily and at reasonable prices I couldn't get rid of my HSS stuff fast enough...

OldRedFord 11-27-2021 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shade Tree Welder (Post 777207)
Tim did you win a lottery?

No wide, kids, or girlfriend to spend money on.

I won't say what I paid for the SIP, but I will say it's less then scrap value.

randydupree 11-27-2021 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldRedFord (Post 777216)
No wide, kids, or girlfriend to spend money on.

I won't say what I paid for the SIP, but I will say it's less then scrap value.

And worth what you paid for it.

mccutter 11-27-2021 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldRedFord (Post 777216)
I won't say what I paid for the SIP, but I will say it's less then scrap value.

Judging from what the other sage members here have said, I would leave it on the trailer and drive directly to the scrap yard with it. ;)

Ironman 11-27-2021 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LKeithR (Post 777210)
I'm 75 so I guess that makes me old school but I've certainly learned that the old ways aren't always the best. When I first started I ground all my own HSS tooling ( and hated every minute of it) but when carbide inserts started to be available more readily and at reasonable prices I couldn't get rid of my HSS stuff fast enough...

Yep, if the "old ways" were the best, we would have kept them. Progress is always moving forward to less cost for better quality.

Shade Tree Welder 11-27-2021 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LKeithR (Post 777210)
Sharpening tools is one thing, making your own is another thing entirely.

This is 2021 and HSS is pretty much obsolete except when it comes to end mills.

I'm 75...

Agree completely on point one.

End mills and drills... :rolleyes: And yes HSS is greatly deminished from where it once
was. But Stellite and High carbon steel once ruled cutting tools and I bet most
people have never heard of Stellite.

Hell I didn't know you were that old, I should be nicer...

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldRedFord (Post 777216)
No wife, kids, or girlfriend to spend money on.

Kids are really expensive... I might be able to retire now that they are gone...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironman (Post 777227)
Yep, if the "old ways" were the best, we would have kept them. Progress is always moving forward to less cost for better quality.

Somethings should be remembered and taught.

Grinding your own tools while not a productive way to spend time today,
did teach a lot of machinists how cutting tools worked. Just like stick welding
very little production welding is SMAW anymore, yes it still has its place but
most pipelining has gone to dual shield.

I still start out new weldors with stick to learn the basics. MIG is too easy and
they don't learn puddle manipulation, like they do with stick and Tig.

greywynd 11-28-2021 03:36 AM

If a machinist is ‘field machining’ with limited resources, they better know how to sharpen HSS and carbide with a bench grinder, because that is often all that there is.

When you’re working on a jobsite, with whatever tools and equipment that fit in a pickup truck, you make do with what is available.


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Grizz 11-28-2021 12:04 PM

a lot of great wisdom in this thread, how ever with the way the supply chain has broken, making our own anything may be the way of the future of quite a while, I won't be sending anything for scrap anytime in the near future.

Shade Tree Welder 11-28-2021 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grizz (Post 777258)
a lot of great wisdom in this thread, how ever with the way the supply chain has broken, making our own anything may be the way of the future of quite a while, I won't be sending anything for scrap anytime in the near future.

Yup...

OldRedFord 11-28-2021 06:43 PM

Im debating on doimg some YouTube videos on resurrecting this radial drill. Doesnt need much, just one bronze bushing remachined.

randydupree 11-29-2021 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldRedFord (Post 777268)
Im debating on doimg some YouTube videos on resurrecting this radial drill. Doesnt need much, just one bronze bushing remachined.

Why hell yes,you need to do some you tubes.
If i knew how i would be doing some,on everything i do.
I know i watch youtubes all the time.

OldRedFord 12-01-2021 08:04 PM

5 Attachment(s)
Current drill press status. Not much to the power feed side of things.

OldRedFord 12-01-2021 08:12 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Here is the bronze bushing.

Ive secided to sleeve it with a 1 1/8 od by 1" id sleeve and press in place.

2nd picture shows the bushing and shadt, handle and gear set.

OldRedFord 12-04-2021 09:33 PM

3 Attachment(s)
I successfully reassembled the internals.

Not as intimidating as it looked when I started.

Everything functions mechanically as it should. There are a few electrical changes I am making from original so the internal/external switches didn't get remounted. Plus one of them was broken.

GWIZ 12-04-2021 11:07 PM

Don't know about your drill, but one I took a part had an oil pump to pump oil back up to the top gears.

IIRC on some there is a top sight glass that you can see the oil "flowing" as an indication the pump is pumping.

Try to check out the pump if you can.

OldRedFord 12-09-2021 07:19 PM

1 Attachment(s)
For the life of me, I cannot get the Morse taper drill chuck out of the quill. Both should be a #4.

I've tried heat, pb blaster, a punch between the tang and quill. My #4 Morse wedge should fit in the space but will not. It's like either the chuck shank is a #3 in a #4 taper or it's bern reamed out a few too many times.

Kind of at a loss as how to solve it.

Worst case I chuck the quill in the lathe after removing the drill chuck and bore out the taper shank till it loosens up.

If it's been reamed out too much could it be changed from a #4 to a #5?

milomilo 12-09-2021 08:53 PM

You should be able to drill out the upper portion of the tang and then use your #4 to drive it out.


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