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View Full Version : How to forge a Fancy colonial spoon..


allessence
04-07-2017, 07:02 PM
How to on making a spoon.. This will be the match to the fork and i will forge a knife and holder next for a complete set..

https://youtu.be/7vSgWb64tII

seagiant
04-07-2017, 09:02 PM
Hi,
I broke down and bought a swedge block!

It does come in handy at times!

I enjoy making REAL fireplace sets!

allessence
04-07-2017, 09:11 PM
Nice.. How much? Where did you order it from? did you recognize the tool I used on the anvil for the shaping of the spoon bowl????

I have 3 of them.. The spoon sets I am talking about are a little different than a simple swage or swage block..

All food items should have polished tines, bowls etc, etc.. So to make spoons for sale they really should be formed in one heat or ideally cold after cleaning and polishing..

All of my spooning tools are out in the back 40 and I imagine by now have large rust pits in them..

Post up a pick of the fireplace sets.. Would be great to see.. Start a thread I'm sure everybody would love to see them.. Good group on here interested in forged items.. :)

seagiant
04-08-2017, 11:24 AM
Hi,
I'm with a new job and to busy to work my forge now.

That will probably have to wait till I retire?

Here is a link to this swedge block!

It has gone up in price since I bought mine!

There will always be some "Whitesmithing" for utensils!

http://www.centaurforge.com/Centaur-Swage-Block-B/productinfo/WYSWBLB/?gclid=CjwKEAjwlKLHBRDztKr6wMnRthMSJAALcT-sQdtXcyHXdeXwwgRJw_FRi97HDBot4FKTkmvK3A1TXBoCPKbw_ wcB

http://ruralblacksmith.blogspot.com/2009/04/many-files-in-blacksmith-shop.html

allessence
04-08-2017, 07:46 PM
Hi,
I'm with a new job and to busy to work my forge now.

That will probably have to wait till I retire?

Here is a link to this swedge block!

It has gone up in price since I bought mine!

There will always be some "Whitesmithing" for utensils!

http://www.centaurforge.com/Centaur-Swage-Block-B/productinfo/WYSWBLB/?gclid=CjwKEAjwlKLHBRDztKr6wMnRthMSJAALcT-sQdtXcyHXdeXwwgRJw_FRi97HDBot4FKTkmvK3A1TXBoCPKbw_ wcB

http://ruralblacksmith.blogspot.com/2009/04/many-files-in-blacksmith-shop.html

New England Blacksmith's also sell one..

seagiant
04-11-2017, 05:18 PM
Hi,
I think way back when someone had a mold and was making them when I was heavy into ABANA/FABA!

I think I bought mine new as I was not happy using a wooden stump and wanted something that was more stable and didn't burn!

I had a Little Giant 25# Hammer that I bought at a FABA meet from a knife maker in Georgia!

It had been rode hard and put up wet, as they say!

I pulled some shims from the babbet bearings to tighten it up.

Made a new clutch rod and used it for about 10 years making Pattern Weld/ Damascus!

Sold it to a Dentist for about $200 more than I payed for it and bought a Bridgeport Mill.

Think I might try making one of the Clay Spencer Tire Hammers later when I get time.

They work like a Little Giant, but are a lot cheaper these days!!!

Seems everything in Blacksmithing has gone sky high these days!

allessence
04-11-2017, 06:43 PM
Hi,
I think way back when someone had a mold and was making them when I was heavy into ABANA/FABA!

I think I bought mine new as I was not happy using a wooden stump and wanted something that was more stable and didn't burn!

I had a Little Giant 25# Hammer that I bought at a FABA meet from a knife maker in Georgia!

It had been rode hard and put up wet, as they say!

I pulled some shims from the babbet bearings to tighten it up.

Made a new clutch rod and used it for about 10 years making Pattern Weld/ Damascus!

Sold it to a Dentist for about $200 more than I payed for it and bought a Bridgeport Mill.

Think I might try making one of the Clay Spencer Tire Hammers later when I get time.

They work like a Little Giant, but are a lot cheaper these days!!!

Seems everything in Blacksmithing has gone sky high these days!

I used to use forms and wooden forms for years.. Problem is most the stuff like that has lived outside for the past 10 years and the other day I went looking for some stuff and it was all rusted away..

When I was in the trailer which is where all the videos have been filmed I was just to lazy to go and find something else.. Not only that, I like my spoons smooth and I didn't have any hammers with the right radius..

I'll get one of the blocks for the trailer from NEB at the Spring meet.. It's reasonable priced.. Good for all around stuff.. But ideally a spoon swage setup makes smooth bowls and it really speeds up the process..

Using the swage you can usually take a very light heat.. In it goes and with only a few hits it's completed and the scale that was formed during heating is usually knocked off..

As for the Power hammer to day for any long term work they are a must.. Damascus of course is expedited with a hammer and Hydraulic press.. Funny how people used to be happy with a power hammer..


Sometime this summer the NEB group is doing a build of the Spencer hammer.. I'm going to build one for the fun of it.. Ideally I will get back my 200 Fairbanks from the guy who I sold it to when I closed up shop.. Well he actually said to come and get it.. :).. Good guy..

Everything is expensive everywhere.. Nothing is reasonably priced anymore..

seagiant
04-11-2017, 08:33 PM
Hi,
I guess the easiest/cheapest way to build a tire hammer...

Is in one of Clay's Workshops?

I think the biggest hassle is gathering up all the steel you need.

I do have 3 different welders, lathe, mill, horizontal commercial saw, plasma cutter, ect. ect.

I found a great deal on a Hypertherm 45 and tried to get my workplace to buy one.

They wouldn't spend the bucks, so I bought one for myself!

Just sayin got the tools and can get the metal, but ain't got the time, right now!!!

toprecycler
04-11-2017, 09:23 PM
Hi,

I guess the easiest/cheapest way to build a tire hammer...



Is in one of Clay's Workshops?



I think the biggest hassle is gathering up all the steel you need.



I do have 3 different welders, lathe, mill, horizontal commercial saw, plasma cutter, ect. ect.



I found a great deal on a Hypertherm 45 and tried to get my workplace to buy one.



They wouldn't spend the bucks, so I bought one for myself!



Just sayin got the tools and can get the metal, but ain't got the time, right now!!!



Ok, I am guessing that that picture is of a steel hammer handle with different heads that you put in as needed? Just slide on and the taper will hold it until you give it a tap in the end to change it?

Saves storage space instead of every hammer having a handle?


Sent from my iPhone using ShopFloorTalk mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=94314)

allessence
04-12-2017, 04:45 AM
Ok, I am guessing that that picture is of a steel hammer handle with different heads that you put in as needed? Just slide on and the taper will hold it until you give it a tap in the end to change it?

Saves storage space instead of every hammer having a handle?


Sent from my iPhone using ShopFloorTalk mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=94314)

No.. It's an eye drift he used to make the eyes of the tools..

We get to see some fine work here.. Much nicer than the stuff I would make.. I don't even bother to polish stuff anymore.. about 120 grit is as good as it gets..

Nice work seagiant.. You would be very disappointed with the tooling i have.. It's all rusty with broken handles some stuff I just use like a punch now..

Very fine work indeed.. Love to see more of it.. Start a thread with items you have made.. I know everybody who is interested in smithing would like to see it as well.. Knives, tools, stuff you have made.

allessence
04-12-2017, 11:14 AM
Hi,
I guess the easiest/cheapest way to build a tire hammer...

Is in one of Clay's Workshops?

I think the biggest hassle is gathering up all the steel you need.

I do have 3 different welders, lathe, mill, horizontal commercial saw, plasma cutter, ect. ect.

I found a great deal on a Hypertherm 45 and tried to get my workplace to buy one.

They wouldn't spend the bucks, so I bought one for myself!

Just sayin got the tools and can get the metal, but ain't got the time, right now!!!


A few others here have his designs in use..

I figure for the 1200.00 for the get together and to have everything supplied it becomes a no brainer.. 2 days and it's done.. I could round everything up, cut and lay out everything but eh, I'll go and support the group..

Dude you have to start some threads.. You do really nice work and have been active a long time.. I imagine you have lots to contribute and of course any information is welcomed..

seagiant
04-12-2017, 11:15 AM
Hi,
Thats NOT my work!

Just a pic I saw in my ramblings! (you said you liked German Anvils!!!)

Everything I have made I have sold or give away years ago!

I've been mostly Gunsmithing and machine rebuilding, using my lathe and mill.

I want to set up my Blacksmith shop again.

Knives, utensils, fireplace sets, ect. ect.

I was talking to a pro Blacksmith at a class I was taking...

He said the biggest money maker to time/materials that there ever was, was a wall hook!

That's a hook that screws to the wall that maybe you hang your car keys on when you come in the house!

He said he forged at least 200 EVERY morning to get warmed up for the day!!!

USMCPOP
04-12-2017, 11:58 AM
Jen, very elegant spoon/fork. Love the pattern.

allessence
04-14-2017, 09:27 AM
Hi,
Thats NOT my work!

Just a pic I saw in my ramblings! (you said you liked German Anvils!!!)

Everything I have made I have sold or give away years ago!

I've been mostly Gunsmithing and machine rebuilding, using my lathe and mill.

I want to set up my Blacksmith shop again.

Knives, utensils, fireplace sets, ect. ect.

I was talking to a pro Blacksmith at a class I was taking...

He said the biggest money maker to time/materials that there ever was, was a wall hook!

That's a hook that screws to the wall that maybe you hang your car keys on when you come in the house!

He said he forged at least 200 EVERY morning to get warmed up for the day!!!

I do like the North German anvil design the best.. Preferably with side shelf..

When I become a real blacksmith I will buy one.. :)


200 even at 2minutes per which is way short.. Even on my best day it would take about 3minutes per including punching the holes.. I can't imagine him doing 200 a day + drilling all the holes.. So figure 5 minutes per hook, Thats nearly 1000 minutes that would be 16hrs or 16.6 hrs.. i think the guy was rooking you..

On a good day when in hammer shape I could produce a hand made 16 penny nail sized nail in 1 minute.. Averaging about 52 nails per hour..

This rate is not sustainable as one gets muscle fatigue.. LOL.. so first hour figure 52, second hour 50, 3rd hour 48.. Till you reach production level which then flat lines at a given number say between 40 and 45 per hour..

Even with a skilled power hammer operator with open dies I doubt they could get much better than 1 minute forge time on one of those hooks..

Then to twist it.. bend it, etc. etc.. I think the guy was pulling your leg..

From the looks of it it's either 3/8 or 1/2" stock.. this makes it even more of a story..

anyhow, maybe he does and I don't know what i'm talking about or he is just that good of a smith..

He must sell a lot of hooks.. ;)


Jen, very elegant spoon/fork. Love the pattern.

Thanks Pops.. I'm trying.. :)

seagiant
04-14-2017, 09:07 PM
Hi,
You are probably right!

Maybe he was just trying to make a point?

I think if I made 50 in a day I would go crackers, as the Brits say!

I DO believe he might be right as far as material/time, to profit???

How much money would you have to make in a working shop to make a decent living???

The guy or gal, that goes out and creates something to sale, to feed their kids, have always been Hero's to me!

This is another advantage of taking a real class at a real Art School, for a week or so as...

The Teacher is yours to instruct but also to answer questions, and 90% of them are working Artist!!!

allessence
04-15-2017, 09:12 AM
Hi,
You are probably right!

Maybe he was just trying to make a point?

I think if I made 50 in a day I would go crackers, as the Brits say!

I DO believe he might be right as far as material/time, to profit???

How much money would you have to make in a working shop to make a decent living???

The guy or gal, that goes out and creates something to sale, to feed their kids, have always been Hero's to me!

This is another advantage of taking a real class at a real Art School, for a week or so as...

The Teacher is yours to instruct but also to answer questions, and 90% of them are working Artist!!!

I know 5 full time smiths... back in the 90s I was probably the only 1 of 2 within 100miles that was making a living at being a full time blacksmith and only doing custom forged items with no secondary income from other sources (trust, parents, other side jobs, etc ,etc) I was a full time smith with a new job every week.... But I really hustled and there was a lot of colonial house restorations going on...

The 5 other full time smith's (2 worked at Old Sturbridge village)

The 3rd lived with his parents and bought a house that was falling down but had a good barn.. he would fix stuff as money allowed.. He also started at old Sturbridge village, and is very well known and has worked for museums, old mystic seaport, Campbell Scholls and a slew of others. He is probably one of the most talented forger I know and an artist blacksmith title fits.. He is a starving artist and despite all his success and ability he is always struggling to make a comfortable living..

The 4th is a 5th generation smith and is amazing and inherited the shop from his father.. He specializes in industrial forgings as well as selling steel.. this guy makes the metal jump out of the hammers way... and does ok..

The 5th guy has a wife that makes serious money and he is a trust baby... he claims to be a full time smith but I have only seen him work like once in 3 years.. He used to travel to all the shows I was doing and would ask all sorts of guestions.. really nice guy... he also got his start at old Sturbridge village...

Today the only really successful smith's I know are very diversified. Or specialize in one area but will work on anything..

Keys are to be in the right geographic area..

Basically what I have seen is the online presence, and the resurgence and interest has spurn teaching and the selling of tools into a full time smith position...

With the baby boomers coming into retirement and having income to spend now they have time on there hands and find blacksmithing as the hobby... They make a few things and discover they can sell them on etzty or other channels.. next thing you know they are in business... Again they have retirement income and the blacksmithing is fun work...

If I wasn't a full time farrier I wouldn't ever get back into blacksmithing professionaly. It's to heart wrenching for me.. to depend on it for a full time income..

As an example: I had a couple come by yesterday who want a sign bracket made.... they showed up with a rough sketch, with no measurements.. I spent 20minutes explaining what I needed from a design point and then told them outright the time we were spending would incur a fee since it's design time..
I asked what the budget was they said 150.00.. I told them outright from the sketch it would be in the 400-500.00 range

I told them to go home and come up with measurements and save up some pennies.. When they were ready and had the money and design ready to give me a call..

I had no problem with telling them that because I don't need the work.. Something i would not have had the luxury to do before, so I would have said well, we can do this or this or this, and then I would have gotten it down to 1/2 what it would take and did it for pennies on the dollar.. but it's a job.. Then I would have hated myself..

So, the question I would pose to you is" What would you consider a good income?

I've bee self employed for 38 years.. Personally I think 200K a year is a good living.. I could afford to retire, take vacations, new car, fix up the house, new shop, buy gear, etc, etc..

In 1990 I was making 60.00 hr.. I get 100.00 to 110.00 hour now for custom forge work.. That 100.00 to 110.00 is like making 50.00 today..

One other thing.. I was told repeatedly from the time I was able to understand language.. " If I work hard, and become good at what I do, I will be successful".. I know now, that was a lie.. It takes more than that.. I have a very serious attitude and people find that grating.. I'm as honest and straight shooting as I can be without being mean.. These are not valued attributes.. Networking, socializing, yet being fun hearted etc, etc. and of course "knowing the right people, and playing the game" are more important then being well skilled..