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View Full Version : Side Blast Forge.


R W
10-10-2016, 05:38 AM
Has anyone built a side blast forge.

Walker
10-10-2016, 04:30 PM
I have tried LP burners in every direction, straight down works the best.

allessence
10-10-2016, 06:07 PM
Do you mean a forge that has the tuyere off the side either air cooled or water cooled?

Like the english old ones?

I built one way back.. I wasn't as skilled as I am now in fabrication and it was very, very crude.. I used 2" water pipe just laid on top of a steel plate and put bricks around it..

It worked ok but was just way to crude..

I have wanted to build a water cooled one pretty much from the first time I had seen one..

Once the shop is up I am going to build one or 2 of the water cooled ones..

They offer some advantages you can never get with a bottom blast forge..

R W
10-11-2016, 05:13 PM
Do you mean a forge that has the tuyere off the side either air cooled or water cooled?

Like the english old ones?

Thanks for a very good description.

Walker
10-11-2016, 07:39 PM
Mine have all been LPG, can't help with anything that runs on rocks.

allessence
10-11-2016, 07:52 PM
Thanks for a very good description.

I have to ask because you never said "Yes" or "No" to what you were looking for..

Need more information than that..

R W
10-12-2016, 04:47 AM
I have to ask because you never said "Yes" or "No" to what you were looking for..

Need more information than that..

Main thing I'm looking for is opinions on this type of forge as I am
considering building one in preference to the bottom blast type.

The answer to your question is yes.

allessence
10-12-2016, 04:59 AM
Water or air cooled? Water cooled are to be known to have a "Bosh"..

Ok.. That clears things up greatly..

I certainly can help if you'd like.. You seem to be a person of few words..

Bottom vs side blast..

Bottom blast you can only make a fire as big as the firepot.. also you can not move the fire further from where it is.. A bottom blast tuyere also the clinker has a tendancy to blow liquid back up to the metal being welded vs side blast.. Bottom blast firepots usually get damaged easier when using watered down coal as the cast iron cracks at the sides.. They make heavier pots now.. Also a bottom blast is designed for what fuel is being used.. Coke vs soft coal vs hard coal..


A water cooled side blast one can move the fire all the way across the forge bed i need be.. A fire can be as big as one wants.. One can use a splitter and make the fire even bigger or wider.. There is no clay liner in a side blast.. just crushed up clinker and dust that gets watered down every so often..

A side blast the clinker usually doesn't blow nasty back up onto the work piece as it settles to the bottom under the nozzle....


You can use any fuel you want to by just changing the ashes packed in the pan and by changing the blower (hand vs electric) Hand for wood or soft coal.. Electric for all but needed for coke or hard coal..

The disadvantage is the amount of knowledge needed to use a side blast vs bottom blast.. They both take a skill set to use but the side takes a little more..

USMCPOP
10-12-2016, 05:06 AM
The old Thai blacksmith I worked with had a sort of side blast charcoal forge. Almost identical to this setup. Worked well.

allessence
10-12-2016, 06:15 AM
The old Thai blacksmith I worked with had a sort of side blast charcoal forge. Almost identical to this setup. Worked well.


Pops little bit different. Yes the Asian forges are a side blast but the structure and how they are setup is different..

I'll try to find a picture later of a side blast water cooled forge..

USMCPOP
10-12-2016, 07:03 AM
The Hmong hilltribe guys used more of a Japanese/Chinese style box blower with their clay mud forges.

USMCPOP
10-12-2016, 09:36 AM
This guy has a couple side-blast forges. You can see details of his smaller portable forge starting at 14:43. He has a couple more videos.

Blacksmithing - Why Side Blast Forges Are The Best #1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypahcig1KQw

allessence
10-12-2016, 04:44 PM
This guy has a couple side-blast forges. You can see details of his smaller portable forge starting at 14:43. He has a couple more videos.

Blacksmithing - Why Side Blast Forges Are The Best #1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypahcig1KQw

That was a good over view...

His take on a soft coal forge is a little off but I think it's because of his skill level with it.. A soft coal forge certainly does take more work then any other fuel except maybe a wood forge.

R W
10-12-2016, 05:35 PM
Thanks a lot Allessence for your informative replies.

I did have a bottom blast forge but was never really taken
with it, found it slow to heat.
The next one I build will be a water cooled side blast.

Do you have any dimensions re a side blast.

allessence
10-12-2016, 06:14 PM
Thanks a lot Allessence for your informative replies.

I did have a bottom blast forge but was never really taken
with it, found it slow to heat.
The next one I build will be a water cooled side blast.

Do you have any dimensions re a side blast.

Your welcome..

slow to heat??????? Maybe I can help you with the problem.. Soft coal forges have one of the fastest reheat times.

From a cold start i can have the forge, forge welding ready in 5 minutes????

Takes me only 2 minutes to start it from a dead cold.. and in those 2 minutes the fire is ready really at 1minute 30seconds..

A bottom blast forge if setup wrongly either fuel wise or how it's fed can be a major problem..

Recently when I was at the NEB show everyone there ran there forges with hollow firepots.. It was as if they were never taught how to use the firepot and it's different heat zones or the fact tht different parts of the fire offer different zones in regards just like a gas torch.. Oxidizing, neutral, or carbonizing depending on how the fire is made and where the piece of metal is located..

Not sure if you know how to forge weld or not but this can be seen when forge welding.. If you stick the rod way down at the bottom the piece will throw sparks before it hits welding temperature.. If at the neutral part of the fire it will go past welding heat almost to white and never throw sparks until it gets removed from the fire..

And carbonizing you will reach welding temperature but it will take longer and the metal won't look quite right..

Anyhow, ask some questions in regards to the forge you have and send some pictures..

Hand blower or electric.. What kind of coal? What kind of forge? How big is the firepot? How deep is the firepot? (most people try to convince others that the firepot should be small).. for me it's a 12X14" with 4-5" deep..5 or even 6 is ideal..

Do you have a factory made forge or a self made one?

The video Pops posted while the guy had some good suggestions he wasn't totally accurate with the coke info nor his take on soft coal as a fuel..

I pull almost no clinker out even after a day of forge welding for 4-6 hrs.. Forge welding creates the largest amount of clinker not only because of all the flux and scale that goes in but also because it has the highest consistent heat and this makes the impurities stick together..

One big disadvantage to the side draft is no clinker breaker and the air hole can actually get plugged up if you use a hand crank blower..

allessence
10-12-2016, 06:24 PM
The Hmong hilltribe guys used more of a Japanese/Chinese style box blower with their clay mud forges...
Pops so true.. I consider all these designs as Asian forges.. Basically a tunnel affair with a side pipe coming in.. sometimes more than 1 pipe with or without box blower..

These forges are designed to keep the fire contained within walls and this controls how large a fire gets in area (widthXlength) vs a side blast or bottom blast forge which can take a little bit of skill to keep the fire where it belongs..

some days the fire doesn't want to behave at all and it can take a good 2 or 3 hrs to get the fire under control.. Somedays it's all magic..


I have heated to an orange color anvils as big as 200lbs in my old masonry forge which I built when I was 17..

It had a bottom blast assembly with a standard 12X14" Centaur firepot..

Great pics each post.. Thanks

R W
10-13-2016, 06:04 AM
Re Post #15.
At this time I do not posses a forge, did have a homemade
bottom blast which was made from a plough disc and a car rim, a hand
cranked blower was used.
I believe the cause of the slow heating may have been due to the
lack of good quality fuel, tried coal from a local mine but found the ash
content to be high. Other fuel such as coke or charcoal are not easy to
obtain here. Have heard coal from another mine about 2 hours away
may be OK.
I have a blower at the moment that was not sold as a forge blower
but I'm sure it can be adapted and easily set up for hand or electric
motor drive.
I have not tried forge welding.

USMCPOP
10-13-2016, 06:12 AM
In the video I posted, the guy does give some dimensions for the smaller forge.

allessence
10-15-2016, 09:28 AM
here is a complete PDF on making a setup.. Mark Aspery uses a side blast forge..

I've grown over the years to prefer a bottom blast because of how you can set it up with a hoodless stack.. Really it's the hoodless stack I prefer..

A side blast needs to have a proper chimney..

R W
10-16-2016, 03:41 AM
Thanks Allessence for the PDF

allessence
10-16-2016, 07:41 PM
Thanks Allessence for the PDF

Your welcome.. Might be a PDF sticky to have stuck to the other PDF's.. :)

toprecycler
10-17-2016, 06:39 AM
Your welcome.. Might be a PDF sticky to have stuck to the other PDF's.. :) I saved it to my drive. One if these days I am going to have to do a backup!

Brian

allessence
10-17-2016, 08:18 AM
I saved it to my drive. One if these days I am going to have to do a backup!

Brian

Thats funny.. RDX baby.. RDX