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allessence
11-14-2014, 05:06 PM
I have 3 different types of hand crank blowers and one electric.. I used to have 2 electric but one got scrapped..

I have a Canedy Otto, 3 Buffalo Silent 200's 14" and 1 Champion 400 and today I received a Buffalo silent 200 12"

So the new one went for little money as it was missing the gear drive cover.. But it did come with a mounting arm..

I am okay with that.. I'll make a new gear drive cover from sheet at some point..


The Canedy otto is a top of the line multi shaft oil filled gear case unit with helical gears but works about like the Champion 400 which has a worm drive in it.. The blower outlet is 90D to the air flow.. they work well enough..

But I prefer the Buffalo silent 200.. I've only used the 14" and is what I prefer but I couldn't pass up on how cool that cover looks on the 12" model..

also the parts are interchangeable for the most part.. I'd have to make up a 14" fan blade but this gives me back up.. If and when I start my forging school it will give people a chance to try different blowers..

And now for the pictures..

allessence
11-14-2014, 05:08 PM
Here are the Canedy Otto , and Champion 400..

milomilo
11-14-2014, 05:56 PM
A cast aluminum cover would look very cool on the new one.:D

allessence
11-14-2014, 06:01 PM
Wow see that is why I love it here.

A cast aluminum cover would be

Lu47Dan
11-15-2014, 11:32 AM
A cast aluminum cover would look very cool on the new one.:D
+1
Jenn, quite a collection of blowers you have. :cool:
Dan.

allessence
11-15-2014, 12:41 PM
+1
Jenn, quite a collection of blowers you have. :cool:
Dan.

I sure do.. my original blower is gone now.. I used a gear reduction unit with a belt to a rotary squirrel cage blower.. This was fastened under the Mack Truck oil pan forge..

I was lucky enough that one of the family friends dad was the last blacksmith in town and the guy bought the house and shop from his father so when he found out I was interested in blacksmithing he said I could borrow it..

I've had it nearly 30 years now.. Long time to borrow something right.. He eventually said just keep it I offered him money for it but said " keep it and use it in good health and he couldn't be happier knowing it went to someone who would use it.".. Thanks JOE G.. I didn't end up with any of the other equipment other than the blower and a couple of oil filled tubes the Dad used to harden chisels in.. Joe's son eventually ended up with a belt driven/hand driven drill press and the anvil.. He was/is a mechanic.. The dad who was the blacksmith was a nice guy and not grumpy at all.


Then I got the Canedy Otto for doing a job for a fellow blacksmith as payment..


The other Buffalo's 1 came on a forge I bought for 35.00.. Newer style MFg.. Not as good as the older ones and the other one I don't even remember where I pic'd it up..

The Champion 400 came from a guy David L.. He bought a home that had a blacksmith shop on it.. I never did get to see the rest of the stuff as he moved a few years later but I ended up with it for 75.00.. It went into the Blacksmith trailer right away as it was perfect timing since I needed one for there anyhow..

I don't even remember what I used on some of the forges I had.. Been a long road..

allessence
11-15-2014, 07:33 PM
Bearing help..

so today I completely stripped the blower down to clean it out and get it ready for paint..

I'm having a hard time with matching up bearings..

The bearing inner race says ND 12 P or R

The inside diameter is 12.00MM or 0.473

Width 6.96mm 0.274

The outer race as measured inside the hub housing since I didnt' take it out yet. but looks like right around 32mm..

How can something so old have metric bearings?

This thing is from like 1901..

Also I believe they are angular contact bearings.. the inner race bearings came apart separatly, the outer race stayed in the housing.

allessence
11-15-2014, 08:18 PM
the complete blower housing has to come off then pull the bearing cap off the non drive side..

Then pull lock screw and push the shaft out towards the drive side..

The bearings in the rod you will see them.. then the axial play adjusters. Look at both.

allessence
11-15-2014, 10:00 PM
Once you have the shaft out from the second gear you can remove the outside cover and remove the locknut then the washer and second preload nut..

allessence
11-15-2014, 10:03 PM
once the shaft is out it's just a matter of cleaning up the case, gears and bearings. The bearings are usually just dirty but these were rusty.. More than likely from not having a cover on it and water getting inside..

I could put it all back together now and it would work just fine but I'll try and find the correct bearings..

allessence
11-15-2014, 10:12 PM
E12 MAGNETO BEARING (12X32X7)


http://www.onlinebearings.co.uk/E12-Magneto-Bearing-12x32x7.html

This is pretty much what the bearing is like.. Have never seen something like this before...

Whitetrash
11-16-2014, 02:26 AM
Angular contact ball bearing maybe

Lu47Dan
11-16-2014, 12:31 PM
Jenn, make your pattern for the cover now before you put it back together.
As to the bearing I have not seen on like that before.
Dan.

Scotts
11-16-2014, 01:24 PM
Yes, bearing is like a thrust roller bearing. It is made for speed and thrust at the same time. I bet when the fan is turning is is placing a side load on the bearing and I'll bet that is why it is in there. I have something similar on a couple of small extruders for thrust bearings on the screw before the gearbox.

Should be able to source them at a local bearing house. I did find the magneto bearing reference a few times.

Scott

allessence
11-16-2014, 06:26 PM
Angular contact ball bearing maybe
I got the bearing shells out today.. Definetly says ND 12 R.. When I looked them up they say a one sided deep race ball bearing.. :confused:

Jenn, make your pattern for the cover now before you put it back together.
As to the bearing I have not seen on like that before.
Dan.

Now? I have the other blowers to use as a pattern for the cover.. Just will need to pattern both sides then split the difference to allow for shrinkage of the alum..



Yes, bearing is like a thrust roller bearing. It is made for speed and thrust at the same time. I bet when the fan is turning is is placing a side load on the bearing and I'll bet that is why it is in there. I have something similar on a couple of small extruders for thrust bearings on the screw before the gearbox.

Should be able to source them at a local bearing house. I did find the magneto bearing reference a few times.

Scott

Hi there is only a marginal side load.. It is an earlier model.. Believe it or not I have never had a later model completely apart.. No reason in 30+ years.. This one I took apart because it made more noise than I like..

Here's a few flyers for the later gen 14" models.. I have a late model one that they cheaped up..

So Now I have a 12" silent 200 which was their premo one at that time, Then I have one of the updated silent 200 14", And then the later generation that was in production (this one has large thrust load screws and no 14" on the case) Just silent 200..

The next generation had stamped steel fan housings.. I remember them still having some for sale in the late 70's, early 80's..

allessence
11-25-2014, 08:42 AM
So after taking all apart and cleaning and looking at the bearings. I did find some..

They are magneto bearings and still readily available in the UK and special order at the local bearing house..


I got quoted 20.00 per from the bearing house + tax.


I also noticed that the double sealed bearings I have for Betzy's saw guides are the exact 12mmX32mm only problem is they are 10mm wide vs the stock at 7mm wide..

After looking at this I decided there is plenty of clearance on the outboard side of the bearings..

The prop shaft side of the shaft is the retainer side as it uses a small wire groove with wire inside and then tightened at the other end via the 2 nuts thus setting bearing pre load..

So I decided to use the newer style bearings 6201 I believe they are..

My only thing is.. I realize they are 2x sealed but I have found these seals don't really seal the bearing they just keep larger stuff from getting in but oil and grease does come out..

Does anyone know if they make this style bearing with oil seals?

I'd love to put in some real oil seals as this would make the blower a top notch unit as they (Buffalo, and Champion are oil leakers vs the Canedy Ottos which have a unique gear configuration and therefore don't leak as much oil..

The pictures are of the comparisions between the old style and the new style..

The only difference in the 2 are bearings. and a smaller fan on the 12" model otherwise they are identical for the most part.. Same blower snail, same gear case for the most part.

The shaft on the old 12" model is 12mm the later model 1/2".. The earlier model has bearings at both sides of the shaft.. The later model is setup with only bearings on one side of the shaft like a pinion gear from a diff..

The later model has slots so you can index the snail housing some..

The earlier ones had one position only..

The later models had a bushing for the hand crank shaft.. Early ones only the casting itself..

The later ones had no provision for shaft adjustment vs the earlier ones which used offset bushings you would turn to get the quietest running position.

allessence
11-25-2014, 08:49 AM
So here you can see the casings are pretty much the same.

Funniest thing is.. The 12" Vs 14" moniker as they are exactly the same size and the only real difference is the fan size..

I will likely make a larger fan for the 12" model..

confederatemule
10-15-2015, 09:40 PM
Thanks, Jennifer, for the detailed description and the great images.

Mule

bakk
11-11-2015, 02:58 PM
Hey Jennifer,
Did you manage to remove the other large gear on there? The one with the drive shaft on it?
I've got the same buffalo 200 (the 14" I believe) and can't seem to remove the final shaft and gear.

Cheers!

bakk
11-11-2015, 03:22 PM
I just ran out and snapped some photos of the issue I have... I managed to remove the middle gear, but the gear attached to the drive shaft has what looks like the end of a set screw on one side... however 180 degrees from it is a hole, and I can't for the life of me tell if it's threaded or not, and if it is, it appears it might have been broken off?

Also, in the last photo, it seems there is the making of a small crack along where the "set screw" (for lack of a better term) piece is. I don't want to go tapping on the shaft trying to knock it out if the crack is going to widen itself and break the gear.

The whole contraption works as is... but there is a ton of gunk and rust on the bottom that I want to give a very thorough cleaning to before putting it back in service.

Thanks for any help.

allessence
11-11-2015, 04:17 PM
Hey Jennifer,
Did you manage to remove the other large gear on there? The one with the drive shaft on it?
I've got the same buffalo 200 (the 14" I believe) and can't seem to remove the final shaft and gear.

Cheers!

The gears ate held on with tapered drift pins.

Carefully drive them out and then stabilize the shaft while you rotate the gear.. there is a burr that forms internally..

I just ran out and snapped some photos of the issue I have... I managed to remove the middle gear, but the gear attached to the drive shaft has what looks like the end of a set screw on one side... however 180 degrees from it is a hole, and I can't for the life of me tell if it's threaded or not, and if it is, it appears it might have been broken off?

Also, in the last photo, it seems there is the making of a small crack along where the "set screw" (for lack of a better term) piece is. I don't want to go tapping on the shaft trying to knock it out if the crack is going to widen itself and break the gear.

The whole contraption works as is... but there is a ton of gunk and rust on the bottom that I want to give a very thorough cleaning to before putting it back in service.

Thanks for any help.

I'm a gluten for punishment so I'd probably remove it. The danger will be when it goes back together and you reinstall the pin.

That being said.. if you disassemble the bottom you won't have to touch the top gear and shaft. ..

milomilo
11-11-2015, 06:38 PM
So Jenn, what RPM are the blades turning with the gear reduction?

allessence
11-12-2015, 07:01 AM
So Jenn, what RPM are the blades turning with the gear reduction?


It is variable speed. 0-? Depends on how fast you can move your arm.. :)

It's actually a gear increaser vs reducer.. IIRC its 1 = 8 turns.

allessence
05-08-2016, 08:10 PM
Okay, I was way off on the ratio.. it is 48:1..

I worked on the blower yesterday and used some of the 6001RS bearings or where they 6000RS..

Anyhow, I need to find real oil seals for this..

With the bearings in there it ran super smooth and actually very quite for having rust pits on the face of the spur gear..

The factory bearing is a Magneto bearing which instead of making you guys look back is 12IDX32mmX7mm

The 6000RS are 12mmX32mmX10mm So either these with real oil seals installed or something

There is an outer lip on the outside which could fit a seal with no hole.. and is 1.625 ID The other side has the same ID but with a 12mm shaft running in it..

So need one blank off plug and one oil seal.. This would make the is blower outstanding as then it could be oil bath of the gears..

On these blowers you would add oil at the start of the day but within 5minutes the oil would be on the floor..

Help please.

Whitetrash
05-08-2016, 08:46 PM
I got an idea for the side with without the shaft.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet+Performance/809/88891749/10002/-1?CAWELAID=230006180002542111&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=15769068431&CATCI=pla-190901967431&gclid=CL-a4ojvy8wCFQ-oaQod4kkNsQ

digr
05-08-2016, 09:05 PM
You could make a tap in cap for the one without the shaft. My band saw gear box is not sealed and grease is used instead of oil. I am sure that shade could find some grease that would work. Otherwise one could buy a seal that would fit the shaft and make a cap machined to except the seal and use the three bolt holes in the case to attach.

allessence
05-09-2016, 04:58 AM
I got an idea for the side with without the shaft.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet+Performance/809/88891749/10002/-1?CAWELAID=230006180002542111&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=15769068431&CATCI=pla-190901967431&gclid=CL-a4ojvy8wCFQ-oaQod4kkNsQ

Interesting idea.. and based on that idea, I think I'll make a cap with an oring on the outside edge.. Problem solved on that side.. Thanks..

You could make a tap in cap for the one without the shaft. My band saw gear box is not sealed and grease is used instead of oil. I am sure that shade could find some grease that would work. Otherwise one could buy a seal that would fit the shaft and make a cap machined to except the seal and use the three bolt holes in the case to attach.

The original seals were just felt with a piece of heavy paper board behind it.. Stuffed into a cap that went over the shaft and into the body..

If you read any of the old journals that was one of the biggest thing that was bad mouthed about Champion or Buffalo blowers.. They were oil spewers.. Canedy Otto came with an oil filled blower that was sealed properly and touted it..

So, for years I poundered why would they have an oil fill on top and a level screw at the back side then there is literally no oil in there once in use..

The level screw is about level with the top of the spur gear inside the case. Yet the wiper seal is lower than the shaft? Both leaked anyhow as they were just stamp steel and to fit the case they had a groove cut in..

So the idea of getting a seal and fitting a cover is a good one..



I looked last night and there are no 12mm X 1.625 seals even made from what I found..


Making a seal carrier isn't much of a problem.. I was hoping someone might just happen to know where to find the right sized seal..