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cutter
02-24-2005, 07:32 PM
I found a little anvil today on my way back into town from the city of Idalou.
(pausing here until the giggles subside) That's right - Idalou.
So I stopped at this place that has become one of my favorites & talked to the proprietor; he's an old auctioneer who understands junk, farm implements & the like and I discovered a Mexican anvil up on the porch. He said, "Yeah, but here's a good'un" & pointed to a different one a little closer to the door and proceeded to tell me that this "good'un" came out of a farm workshop where it had been for over 75 years, through 3 generations of the same family. It is in pretty good shape; I did notice one small maybe 1/2 inch long chip off the side of the face & a few dings but it certainly wasn't beat to death like so many I have seen. I asked the man if he thought it was a 100 pounder, he said he thought probably 85lbs so it's not monster but still, that's probably good enough for me. So I got his cell phone number, did my best to read the markings on the side which looked kinda like " aY Buddey" to me but when I googled it just now, google came back with "did you mean Hay Budden?" so I 'spose that's what I meant.
How does $125 sound to you guys?

Franz
02-24-2005, 08:01 PM
Try HayBurton or variations thereof.
If the face is good, should be a buck to a buck and a half a pound. Of course, I'd want a hardie too for that kind of money.

cutter
02-24-2005, 08:09 PM
It definitely has the 2 d's as in "Budden", not "Burton". And Brooklyn, NY.
Here is the reference I am going by & the link is below, along with a little
teaser at the beginning that I certainly didn't know.

Source: Blacksmith's and Farriers' Tools at Shelburne Museum, by H. R. Bradley Smith:

Mark Fisher is credited with making the first anvil in the United States. Backed by Norris he formed Fisher & Norris in Trenton, New Jersey, which operated from 1847 until 1961. Fisher's first anvil was a cast iron body with a cast steel face. All Fisher and Norris anvils used the Eagle Trademark. Fisher and Norris is also credited with building the largest anvil in the world (it weighed 1600 pounds) for the Centennial Exposition of 1876.

A second United States manufacturer of anvils was Hay-Budden Manufacturing Co. (James Hay and Frederick C. Budden), Brooklyn, New York. They supposedly began operation in 1890 and went out of business in the era of 1920 to 1925. In 1905, Hay-Budden claimed that there were over 100,000 of their anvils in use. Hay-Budden advertising says: `Every Hay-Budden Anvil is made of the best American Wrought iron and faced with the best Crucible Cast Steel. Every genuine Hay-Budden Anvil is made by the latest improved methods. Top and bottom are each one solid piece and welded at the waist. The steel faces to these anvils are all put on in one solid piece: not two or more pieces, as is customary with most anvils ... we have produced a steel for the faces of our anvils which will take a harder temper and be less liable to chip than any on the market ... and the blacksmith who wants a strictly first-class anvil can make no mistake in purchasing a Hay-Budden."

Hay-Budden manufactured a number of different pattern anvils, making the farrier's anvil with and without the clip horn. They also made an Plowmaker's Anvil, a double Horn Anvil, a Hornless Anvil, a Sawmaker's Anvil, and Cooper's Steel faced Beck Irons.

http://www.fholder.com/Blacksmithing/anvil.htm

Wyoming
02-25-2005, 04:17 AM
Cutter, Good price and an excellent brand. While anvil prices vary from region to region, I think you could easily expect to pay a minimum of $2.50 a pound for a "decent" example...more if it was in better condition. The worse thing that ever happened to anvil prices is the Martha Stewarts' of the decorating world who think an old anvil just adds so much to a backyard garden. Keeps the availability low and the prices high. I picked up an anvil down at First Monday when I was visiting my brother over in Kaufman last Feb. or April and brought it up north with me.

madam X
02-25-2005, 09:49 AM
Cutter, Good price and an excellent brand. While anvil prices vary from region to region, I think you could easily expect to pay a minimum of $2.50 a pound for a "decent" example...more if it was in better condition. The worse thing that ever happened to anvil prices is the Martha Stewarts' of the decorating world who think an old anvil just adds so much to a backyard garden. Keeps the availability low and the prices high. I picked up an anvil down at First Monday when I was visiting my brother over in Kaufman last Feb. or April and brought it up north with me.

Oh jeeze . . . Martha is pimping anvils now?? My sister made me find and haul down to NY an old metal bed for a "Flower Bed" because she saw it on TV. I don't know if I'm up to anvil lifting yet :rolleyes:

Tom Zachman
02-25-2005, 09:58 AM
madam,
Did she make a bed of Roses?

Wyoming
02-25-2005, 12:29 PM
Oh jeeze . . . Martha is pimping anvils now?? My sister made me find and haul down to NY an old metal bed for a "Flower Bed" because she saw it on TV. I don't know if I'm up to anvil lifting yet :rolleyes:
Madam, Sitting back in the flower section of the backyard garden the wife has her very own iron bed of flower as well. She's in her rusty metal backyard ornamentation phase. I used to take her with me on my forays up at the local scrapyard, but she kept wanting to bring home the "interesting" pieces that would have taken three men, a boy and a truck with gin poles to move. Even at a dime a pound I was looking at financial ruin. I'm surprised that Marfa hasn't come out with her own line of black striped garden work outfits and cut-rate ball and chain combos at K-Mart...course I haven't been down the garden aisle in some time.

AZCoyote
02-25-2005, 01:11 PM
Hay Budden anvils are/were a great anvil. They are a great piece of American history that should be taken care of. My Hay Budden weighs 265# and I will never part with it. I paid $600 for it so $2.5 per pound is about right. That anvil is a great deal.

Mischa
02-25-2005, 06:16 PM
Hi Cutter,
I picked this link up off here somewhere. www.stagesmith.com
Click "Gallery", "Shop Projects", "Anvils"
I think you will find this interesting. Mischa

cutter
02-28-2005, 11:33 AM
Thanks for all your replies & opinions, folks.
I bought the little anvil, no hardy available but I have wanted an honest-to-god-anvil for about 30 years. This is honestly the first one I have ever run across that was for sale here&now for less than $250. You gotta understand that where I live is realtively a new frontier compared to back east & we don't have 200 year old machine shops to loot when they close up or even 200 year old farm shops. There weren't enough people out here at the turn of the 20th century to hold a quorum on where to put the outhouse. So the pickin's on old tools is pretty thin & they don't come cheap as a rule.

Here the little feller is; it was raining when I took the pictures so I rolled a stump into the shop as stage dressing.

http://www.cutterod.com/cutter_zone/anvilstump2.jpg

and here is the "rating plate"; some of the lettering is not readable but there is enough to clearly identify it as a Hay Budden, Brooklyn, NY. I have no idea what "MANUEL ????? RINGO" had to do with anything. Maybe this anvil was made to commemorate some famous gunfight or something. :) Maybe they were horsethieves that the owner killed with his hammer, I dunno.

http://www.cutterod.com/cutter_zone/haybudden.jpg

The face is a good bit more chipped than I had thought, still plenty good for my purposes.

http://www.cutterod.com/cutter_zone/face.jpg

Wyoming
02-28-2005, 12:02 PM
[QUOTE=cutter]

and here is the "rating plate"; some of the lettering is not readable but there is enough to clearly identify it as a Hay Budden, Brooklyn, NY. I have no idea what "MANUEL ????? RINGO" had to do with anything. Maybe this anvil was made to commemorate some famous gunfight or something. :) Maybe they were horsethieves that the owner killed with his hammer, I dunno.

Cutter, Just a guess, but I'd bet the "Manuel?????Ringo" has been beat to he!! and gone and probably originally said something along the lines of non-ringing anvil. Nice looking anvil one way or the other.

7018
02-28-2005, 12:05 PM
Cutter you suck!!!!!nice one you got there!!Whats that cly.to the right?????

cutter
02-28-2005, 12:23 PM
Whats that cly.to the right?????

Assuming you meant cyl. as in cylinder, that's not a cly. :D
It's a roller that I salvaged out of some kind of old floor scrubber years ago.
Made a cheap roller stand & have been using it with my bandsaw lately.

realhfd
02-28-2005, 12:48 PM
I have no idea what "MANUEL ????? RINGO" had to do with anything. Maybe this anvil was made to commemorate some famous gunfight or something. :)

looks to me like "MANUFACTURING" as in perhaps
Hay Budden
manufacturing of
Brooklyn NY
??

AZCoyote
02-28-2005, 12:58 PM
manufacturing of



That is correct.

cutter
02-28-2005, 01:39 PM
lolol
I just had the chance to look at it in the sunlight (raining yesterday, remember?)and came back in here to report that it indeed says "manufacturing" but I believe it says "Hay Budden Manufacturing Co."
In fact the "C" that I mistook for the "O" in "Ringo" is clearly open even in the photo.
lol, so sad to see yet another romantic legend die before it even got to bloom. I was becoming partial to the horse thief notion myself. :D

7018
03-01-2005, 08:06 PM
Hay cutter check This (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13869&item=6158577197&rd=1) So you got a good deal on yours!!!!!

arcdawg
03-01-2005, 08:25 PM
so let me reinstate that you suck cutter ;)

my dad swears that there is a couple of anvils in our barn.........i think that that is his way of making me clean out the 20 by 50 barn

that includes more crap then you could ever imagine !

dawg

cutter
03-01-2005, 08:32 PM
Hay cutter check This (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13869&item=6158577197&rd=1) So you got a good deal on yours!!!!!

Thanks, Paul. I emailed the seller & asked about the serial number dating. I would like to know just for curiosity.
I also invited him to come see us.

Thanks, Dawg. :D

Franz
03-01-2005, 08:38 PM
Given the location, and the weight of that one on ePay, the price really isn't that outrageous, based on what I read on the smithing sites.
You gotta really want to work to need a 240# anvil, and I don't.

arcdawg
03-01-2005, 08:45 PM
cant you build up the face of that anvil and get it machined >?

dawg

AZCoyote
03-01-2005, 08:50 PM
Cutter, you got a good deal. But, good anvils in the 100# range are not that hard to find. A 240# Hay Budden on the other hand, in top condition, is another story. So, the price goes up.

That guy selling that anvil is a neat old guy. I bought a 160# Mousehole anvil that's 180 years old from him last year. He tried to sell that Hay Budden before for $850, but the bids did not go that high. $850 is TOP DOLLAR even for a fine anvil like that, but still worth it IMO.

AZCoyote
03-01-2005, 08:54 PM
cant you build up the face of that anvil and get it machined >?

dawg

You can, but I wouldn't. It will never be the same. Besides there really is no need to. Anyone looking for a good anvil does not have to look hard. They are on E-bay all the time.

A rare old anvil that is really beat up should be left alone for collectors IMO. My Mousehole is 180 years old and smooth as a baby's butt. My Hay Budden is 100 years old and the same. You really have to abuse an anvil to smash up the tool steel on top.

one_rod
03-02-2005, 06:20 PM
Cutter, The worse thing that ever happened to anvil prices is the Martha Stewarts' of the decorating world who think an old anvil just adds so much to a backyard garden. Keeps the availability low and the prices high.

That will eventually come full circle. It has over here.

People have got these heavy, rusty, expensive, garden ornaments that are no longer in fashion and they are not quite sure what to do with them.

I swapped this ANVIL (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/one_rod/shop4.jpg) for wiring a mains feed into a neighbours garage. He paid quite a lot for the anvil, but did'nt want it cluttering up his re-modelled yard anymore.

The work I did for him was worth about £50 ($75).

Not as nice (or as big!) as the one you scored, but it shows that the bargains are out there if you keep looking.


one_rod.

cutter
03-02-2005, 07:52 PM
I dunno, one_rod; it looks very close in size to me & mine really isn't all that perfect either. I'll try to think to measure mine in few minutes.

On another note, the old gent with the big anvil for sale emailed me back & invited me to send him the serial number so he could look up the mfg. date for me. Problem is now, I can't find it or I have seen only 2 digits on opposite sides of the waist, under the "manuel & ringo" lettering. I hope this isn't a lost cause because I really would like to date the old thing.
Have I ever mentioned that I love old hand tools? They just make me feel better about the world in general. I think its because they reassure me that humanity can survive and flourish without all this "must-have" foppery that we demand today; convenience, speed & power are nice & I enjoy them but pounding the snot out of a crooked piece of iron is a wonderful thing. :D

Wyoming
03-03-2005, 12:11 AM
Have I ever mentioned that I love old hand tools? They just make me feel better about the world in general. I think its because they reassure me that humanity can survive and flourish without all this "must-have" foppery that we demand today; convenience, speed & power are nice & I enjoy them but pounding the snot out of a crooked piece of iron is a wonderful thing. :D
Cutter, When I install drawer fronts I still prefer a good push drill and a Yankee screwdriver.

bgott
03-06-2005, 01:22 AM
The serial number on that Hay- Budden is stamped on the front of the foot to the left of the horn, facing the horn. It should also have the weight stamped on the side under the trademark. Your anvil will weight a couple of pounds less due to the chips knocked off, rust, etc. Nice anvil!

cutter
03-07-2005, 11:24 AM
Thanks for the info, bgott. That's probably going to be challenge, I think. I can see a couple of marks that might be partial numerals but they're not readable at this point. I didn't have any sunlight to help yesterday either. Knowing where to look helps a lot.

Razorhunter
04-24-2005, 12:30 PM
Hey bro,
Did you ever date your anvil?

I just recently scored a 200lb Hay Budden for FREE!
It does have some edge chipping, but overall it's in decent shape. It actually weighs 195 lbs.

I can read the serial # too. The "200lb" marking is gone though, but the "Hay Budden" is still there.
I would love to show it, but my old computer won't let me resize pics too easily.
Wish I could show you guys.

I'm trying to decide if I should get this thing resurfaced. Anybody want to let me email them some pics, and give me your opinion? Anyone here know about resurfacing anvils?? I'm wondering if I can get a little work done to her, and have some nice clean edges ALL the way around again....
Any help would be appreciated fellas...

cutter
04-24-2005, 12:46 PM
Hey bro,
Did you ever date your anvil?



Nope, no date, can't read the serial number.

Mail me your pictures; I'll resize them & send them back to you all ready for you to post. Then you can earn a big " you suck" for getting it free. :D

use this address: traderod(at)swbell.net

Razorhunter
04-24-2005, 02:26 PM
Here is the anvil fellas. Crossing my fingers that the pics show up...

tonycamco
04-24-2005, 02:44 PM
great find cutter now you have to make a forge i made one piece of cake
will send pic in about couple days and tongs its all over the net on blacksmithing fine hobby!!!!

Razorhunter
04-24-2005, 04:14 PM
Lets try this again fellas. Much thanks to cutter for helping me resize the pics.
So,
Whatcha think fellas? Should I leave this one alone or try to "clean" it up a bit?
I wish the edges were sharp all the way around, but I'm not sure what a resurface job would do to it?
I want to keep the original look. Is there a way of "adding" some to it, to sort of "build it up", and then reshape it and have sharp corners again???

Razorhunter
04-24-2005, 04:15 PM
Another....

Razorhunter
04-24-2005, 04:16 PM
# 3 pic fellas...

Razorhunter
04-24-2005, 04:17 PM
Final pic....

Franz
04-24-2005, 06:24 PM
Paul, if you look close at pic#1, you can see where the cap piece is attached to the base of the anvil. Tha cap is what is chipped, because it is hard.
For years now a lot of smiths have been trying different processes to repair or replace caps, including milling them off and replacing with T1 plate for a striking cap.
The problem is the whole anvil has to be red hot as well as the cap, and then, the 2 must be joined to do the job properly.
Another method that has been done with some success is to MIG replace the missing cap metal and then grind or mill to shape. MIG also requires a lot of preheat and postcool, and occasionally results in a broken anvil.
My personal thinking is an anvil can be capped by using T1 plate and brass to bond the cap plate to the base, although I've never tried it.

Shade Tree Welder
04-24-2005, 07:05 PM
Paul,

YOU SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!

Razorhunter
04-24-2005, 07:26 PM
Thanks ShadeTREE! It feels good to have earned my first "YOU SUCK" on ShopTalk!!
I hope there are many more to come!!

I must say that cutters vise, anvil, Delta Bandsaw, and Clausing drill press have all inspired me greatly to begin a search for old tools that can be brought back to life again!
There is no better feeling in the world than bringing these old quality tools back to life!
It hurts me to see the abuse some people have given them, but I guess that's part of it.
Thanks fellas!

tonycamco
04-24-2005, 08:05 PM
cutter here are some pic of forge and tools

tonycamco
04-24-2005, 08:08 PM
tools pics

cutter
04-24-2005, 08:26 PM
Thanks ShadeTREE! It feels good to have earned my first "YOU SUCK" on ShopTalk!!
I hope there are many more to come!!

I must say that cutters vise, anvil, Delta Bandsaw, and Clausing drill press have all inspired me greatly to begin a search for old tools that can be brought back to life again!
There is no better feeling in the world than bringing these old quality tools back to life!
It hurts me to see the abuse some people have given them, but I guess that's part of it.
Thanks fellas!

I told you. :D
And btw, you probably scored a $400 - $600 anvil there that you got for free.
AZ coyote can prolly shed more light on that & with the chips I guess it might not bring as much but a 200 lb anvil is pretty dear these days.
So yeah, YOU SUCK! bigtime. :p

And thanks for the kind remarks.

cutter
04-24-2005, 08:29 PM
cutter here are some pic of forge and tools

Thanks Tony, but you know what? I really don't have time for a new hobby.
I got too many projects going to be taking up anything new. :D
That is, unless it becomes necessary for the project at hand.......

tonycamco
04-24-2005, 08:33 PM
either sit on the sofa or make someting life is short

Razorhunter
04-24-2005, 08:45 PM
Fellas,
Anyone care to tell me about Hardy tools?
I've never seen many of them personally. Are they usually just a square bar about 6" -12" long or so?
I'd love to have one for my Hay Budden. I've seen some on ebay from time to time.
Are there different types of Hardy tools, or are they all just a square, straight bar?

Franz
04-24-2005, 10:53 PM
Hardie tools are any tool that drops into the square hole on the tail of the anvil. The most common is a cold cut, basicly an inverted cold chisel a couple inches wide used to cut stock. There are other tools mostly mini shaped anvils for making shapes.
The round hole a couple inches over from the hardie is a Pritchel hole. If you're making up s hooks, you can drop a round tool into the hardie, and a pin into the pritchel and wind hot stock around the form in the hardie hole.
Other than a cold cut, most smiths will work a lot of years withut using a hardie tool.

bgott
04-24-2005, 11:01 PM
There are tons of different hardy tools. Hot cuts, swages, fullers and just about anything someone has built that they need to stay in one place on the anvil top. I have a hot cut and a home made spring fuller.

bgott
04-24-2005, 11:14 PM
I went out to take pictures of the hot cut and spring fuller and the batteries took a dump after this picture of my hold down. This is on my anvil, a 224# Hay- Budden. I got this for $75.

bgott
04-24-2005, 11:16 PM
Let's try this again.

bgott
04-24-2005, 11:23 PM
Here is my anvil and one of my leg vises. The vise is a 85#, 5 1/4" Indian Chief. The stand is built on top of a tractor rear wheel center. They make a great stand, it pays to stop by tractor dealerships and dig through their scrap bins.

bgott
04-24-2005, 11:36 PM
My forge. This is a Canedy- Otto rivet forge. I will eventually build a forge with a firepot, it's hard to get a deep fire with a rivet forge. With a shallow fire the blast from the blower gives you an oxidizing fire. With a deep firepot you can get a reducing fire and you get less oxidation of the metal. It's a little hard to get a deep fire on a flat pan, I can, however, get welding heat with a little work.

Razorhunter
04-25-2005, 07:07 AM
That's awesome bgott.
Nice clean sharp edges.. I wish mine was a little more like that!
I think I'm just going to throw mine up on a log too....
Thanks for the pics...

bgott
04-25-2005, 09:22 AM
That 200 pounder for free ain't too shabby, Paul. You can build up the edges, you just have to be careful to not take the hardness out of the rest of the top of the anvil. Our blacksmith club had a demonstration on repairing anvils in the shape as yours, it involved using one type of Stoody rod to build it up and then another for the hard surface. There is also lots of pre and post heat at around 800 degrees. If I still have the proceedure wrote down I'll dig it out and post it in the next day or two.

To finish up what I started last night when my camera batteries died, here is my hardy tools. Hot cut in the hole, spring fuller on it's side.

On Edit: Pre and post heat is around 400 to 450 degrees. I guess I'm starting to get old, my memory is going to pot. I hope no one jumped right in and started welding on there anvil! :eek:

bgott
04-25-2005, 09:25 AM
Hmmm. this board can be a little trippy when it comes to posting pictures...

bgott
04-25-2005, 09:26 AM
And it did it to me again...

bgott
04-25-2005, 09:30 AM
HA!!! I beat the bustard!!! :D

Here it is with the spring fuller in the hole and the hot cut on the side.

cutter
04-25-2005, 09:34 AM
That is a good looking anvil, bgott.
Now the hold down I understand but could you 'splain the spring fuller?

bgott
04-25-2005, 09:40 AM
I don't know if posting links to other sites is out of bounds here but I'll soon find out. www.iforgeiron.com has lots helpful hints, and pictures! :) , of blacksmithing stuff like anvil stands, hardy tools and other neat things that could also be used in a welding shop.

bgott
04-25-2005, 10:53 AM
You use the spring fuller when you want a delination between sections of the metal that you are working with. For example, you are wanting to square up a chunk of round but you want a nice clean break between the square and the round. You take a heat and fit the rod into the spring fuller right where you want the transition then you beat on the top element of the fuller while turning the work. You end up with a section that looks like this, ) (, then you work the side you want square. You can see that you'll have a nice transition from the round to square that would be very hard to obtain by just heatin' and beatin' and eyeballin'. You can also use it to add decorative embellishment on a piece, finger grips on a handle or just about anything that fits your fancy. Fullering moves metal way faster than just beating on it, You can stick the metal into the fuller and beat on the top while pulling the metal out to speed up a drawing out process. Most fullers back in the days when blacksmithing was a current industrial process consisted of a bottom fuller that looked like the hot cut hardy, with a matching set tool. The set tool looks like a hammer with a peen that matches the bottom tool. That was back in the day when strikers were prevalent. The smith would hold the work on the anvil or hardy tool and set the top tool where he wanted it and the striker would beat on the top tool. Nowadays, it's hard to sucker someone into being your striker so it pays to build one man tools. Another thing, when you find an old hammer with a weird peen end and a mushroomed face, you probably have found a set tool. The hammer lookin' face is tempered soft, so that when you are beating on it with a hard tempered "real" hammer, you don't shatter the faces and send shards of metal flying to stick in your eyes and fingers and such.

cutter
04-25-2005, 10:54 AM
Bgott,

No problem with links on this site. Very few things are considered out of
bounds here. No porn, no personal attacks or death threats, trolls are
not allowed, no terrorist activities, if you want to sell or buy something
please post it in the "for sale" forum. Just try to be reasonably civil.
That pretty well covers it. :D

Sooner or later someone like me will probably ask everyone to please post their
locations in the their profiles so it shows on their posts. But that's not
a requirement, either. It just helps everyone else understand where they're
coming from and to me, it makes things seem more personal.

add-on: thanks for the spring fuller explanation!

Razorhunter
04-25-2005, 12:40 PM
Sweet info, thanks for posting the pics bro.
I am VERY interested to learn more about the process of "building up" my anvil's edges again.
I wonder if it will still be strong after the "build up"?
I'm not sure if I would be qualified to do it.
Maybe I could find someone around here who is though.
I'd make my day to have this thing back like new again!
ONLY if it doesn't LOOK like a patch job though...
Then, I'd try to find some hardy tools for it too!
I just love these old anvils..
I can't bring up the web page that had the info for dating my anvil anymore. I will do a google to try and find the info. I'm sure someone's got it.
Thanks so much, and look forward to the info...

bgott
04-25-2005, 11:32 PM
Go to this site,http://habairon.org/Sept04/, and scroll down to the links. Most of those guys know more than I can ever hope to. As far as dating your anvil, I'll attach a picture with the place where the serial number is on my HB colored with soapstone. You might have to do a little wire brushing to bring up the numbers and I have had luck taking a picture and having the lens magnify stuff like this to where you can read it in the picture when you can't figure it out by eyesight.

Razorhunter
04-26-2005, 07:15 AM
Thanks bgott.
Yeah, I know where the serial #'s are. Mine shows clearly. (I forgot the exact # otherwise I'd post it now). I'll check later and be back to post it.
Very interested in the resurfacing though. I'll check that site out.
THanks.

Razorhunter
04-29-2005, 10:59 PM
Just to let you fellas know.
I found out that my anvil is either about an 1896 year make, or a 1906 make.
My serial number says "24296" OR "124296". I REALLY think it is "24296" , but there is a SLIGHT chance I'm seeing a "1" in front of the numbers.
They are all just stamped on there so crooked, and there are "character" marks all over this anvil, so it's hard to tell for absolute SURE. I can CLEARLY see the "24296", so that is why I think the "1" is really just a ding.
Anyhow, it is a wonderful feeling knowing this anvil's birthdate (or even having a close idea), and I just can't stop going down to look at this old piece.
I will be dressing up the top edges a little, and it will look even better soon. Looks good as it is though.
I have been told Hay Budden stopped making anvils circa 1925, so they are all old.
I like to hear about other guys anvils, and the stories behind them too. Not sure if I mentioned this before, but my anvil was found in an old rail car in Texas, on a guys ranch where tracks went through his property. Inside the rail car was a stove, an old bed, and this 200lb Hay Budden.

It's hard to believe these old anvils made it through the World Wars when so many were being melted down for the war cause....

Just thought I'd share...

AZCoyote
04-29-2005, 11:59 PM
Paul, IMO don't touch that anvil. If you truly love it, you will ruin a piece of history by "dressing the edges" Every nick, cut, and dent was put there by someone that probably isn't even alive. And, those "imperfections" do not effect the anvil or the work you will do on it in anyway. Anvils are not supposed to have sharp edges.

Just enjoy it and use it as is. You can't hurt it.

Tom Zachman
04-30-2005, 12:02 AM
Paul, IMO don't touch that anvil. If you truly love it, you will ruin a piece of history by "dressing the edges" Every nick, cut, and dent was put there by someone that probably isn't even alive. And, those "imperfections" do not effect the anvil or the work you will do on it in anyway. Anvils are not supposed to have sharp edges.

Just enjoy it and use it as is. You can't hurt it.
I agree. If you want a perfect anvil, make a new one on your own.

cutter
04-30-2005, 12:22 AM
Yippee and thank you Matt! I have been silently screaming "Noooooo!!!" everytime Paul said anything about trying to resurface that anvil but I can't speak with any authority on the subject. You can and you did and I am so glad.

AZCoyote
04-30-2005, 12:36 AM
Yippee and thank you Matt! I have been silently screaming "Noooooo!!!" everytime Paul said anything about trying to resurface that anvil but I can't speak with any authority on the subject. You can and you did and I am so glad.

The irony is that it will probably be weaker after resurfacing. Hay Budden claimed to have the toughest tool steel on the face of their anvils. I have missed hot iron and smacked the face of mine more than once and no dents. I can't imagine any type of weld rod holding up like that.

Sometime in a forum far, far away, someone will be posting: "I found a Hay budden anvil today. It's over 200 years old, but someone welded on the face. Should I buy it?" Nope.

Razorhunter
04-30-2005, 09:38 AM
Yeah fellas, I should have mentioned this before.
I too, have been torn between cleaning it up a little, or not.

One thing, is that this anvil is not all that bad. It has just got about a 4" span on each long edge of the face, that needs to be fixed. One side is fairly bad, the other side is not too bad. Just mashed down alot.
The one bad side is really kind of "in the way" of any work I'd like to do there.
NO, it's not the biggest deal in the world, but I wish it was gone.

Now I DO totally love all the other character marks on the anvil. Heck, there's 100 years of nicks and dings all over it, and I think they look GREAT!

Still though, I saw a website where a bunch of anvil buffs (and weldors) got together and fixed up the edges of these things.

So you see fellas, I've been torn between what to do.
Many say I should keep this one, and find another with perfect edges.
Maybe it wasn't such a bright idea...

Here's a link to a site where the boys are fixing up a REALLY busted up anvil. It has MAJOR damage....
http://habairon.org/Sept04/

cutter
05-20-2005, 12:15 AM
This was my first anvil. It is 3/4 inch thick, about 3 1/8th " wide by 13 1/4 inches long. My father handed it to me to use when I was in grade school, well over 50 years ago; I used it to do various jobs that he assigned me but the one that I remember very clearly was replacing the blades on a nine foot sickle bar. It was the bar to the mower that went on the DoodleBug, a little home made tractor that Dad built in '49 or maybe 1950, mostly from WWII surplus stuff - Jeep motor, aircraft landing gear hydraulics, etc. But it had a Model A truck transmission & rear end. It had a small scoop on the front that we used for cleaning manure out of the cow lots, a PTO driven trash pump, 200 amp generator that he used to weld well casing, on & on. But I had to chisel off the old rivets & then punch them out into one of the holes in this piece of flat bar, then rivet the new blades onto the sickle bar.
He loved to make me straighten old nails from buildings that he bought for salvage; that's how Dad liked to buy lumber & he didn't believe in wasting the nails either, so long as he had free labor to pound them back straight. I got many a blood blister doing that. This old piece of scrap has lots of personal & family history in its molecules; it laid around the farm workshop for many years, then it was used in a little country garage that Dad operated for a few years in the mid fifties through 1962. Then he moved it along with his tools into his workshop when he sold the garage & "moved into town" in the same year. I brought it home with me sometime around 1970 & still find it a handy thing to have around once in a while. I suppose it is older than I am by quite a few years and I would not sell it for any reasonable amount of money.
And no, I will never paint it.

http://www.cutterod.com/cutter_zone/welding%20table,%20vise/firstanvil.jpg

Wyoming
05-20-2005, 12:23 AM
Cutter, Congratulations on reviving an old memory from back when I was a kid as well. Haven't thought of working on sickle bars in years. Thanks for the memory jog.

cutter
05-20-2005, 12:49 AM
And you've still got all your fingers, too? :)

Wyoming
05-20-2005, 01:36 AM
Cutter, The answer is yes...even with the old man's staunch support of child labor without a heck of a lot of warnings, safety, etc...I'm sure he believed he and mom could always batch up replacements for us if the need called.

Razorhunter
05-20-2005, 03:46 PM
That's a wonderful story cutter!
I love hearing about it's history!

You have provided some of the best info on old tools, and/or bringing old tools back to life, and I thank you very much for all that you share... Keep it up man!

bgott
05-21-2005, 12:23 AM
I used to sharpen and resection sickle bars. I worked at an old blacksmith shop, we used to do just about every sickle bar in the Siskiyou County, CA.. We had a sharpening bench and resectioning was fairly easy when the bar was clamped to the bench. Except when you had to change a section in the drive end. :(