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Dman033189
12-17-2004, 10:03 AM
I am getting an air compressor for christmas and I was set on getting a Craftsman (http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00916644000&subcat=Portable+Tank+Compressors) but I am not sure how long that one would last.So I started looking and I found a grizzly (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00012Y3A0/qid=1103295398/br=1-6/ref=br_lf_hi_6//002-0864839-3610402?v=glance&s=hi&n=552674) and it seems alot better made. Then I was thinking about getting a propane tank and making it a larger compacity would this be a better way to go? My problem is tommarow is the sale on the craftsman so it is now or never I could get it for $150 with all the sales.

big rig guy
12-17-2004, 10:20 AM
Go with the Grizzly for sure, its a belt driven model, that Sears model looks like a direct drive, which you will become to hate, noisy operation.

The grizzly is on wheels and that might work to your advantage as well.

For more capacity, do what I did, keep an eye out in your local buy and sell papers for a used compressor tank, I found one, 80 gallon for 100.00, he even delivered it too.

Mike W
12-17-2004, 02:37 PM
Do not get a direct drive unless you like a lot of noise. :D

Dman033189
12-17-2004, 10:15 PM
I think I am going to get the Grizzly but it is 220 and we only ran one 220 line for the welder and everytrhing is behind osb. Any ideas for wiring?

Franz
12-17-2004, 11:44 PM
Make yourself an overgrown cube tap, plug the welder into one side and the compressor into the other side.

Dman033189
12-18-2004, 05:48 AM
Do you mean running two plugs on one line?

Dman033189
12-18-2004, 10:37 AM
OK I went to buy it and they want $58.00 to ship it so I am thinking I would be better off to wait and get a better one at an auction. And watch the local paper for used ones for sale.

Dman033189
12-18-2004, 07:05 PM
Ok I am going tommarow to look at one of these (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000DD3DI/qid%3D1103399194/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/002-1982594-4665614) except it is three year old, and a 6 hp instead of 7hp. The guy said it works we will see. He is asking $275. And the high point is he said it will run off from 110 or 220v so I wont have to run a new line, if it would run off from 110 why would I wire it for 220v?

cutter
12-18-2004, 08:17 PM
Ok I am going tommarow to look at one of these (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000DD3DI/qid%3D1103399194/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/002-1982594-4665614) except it is three year old, and a 6 hp instead of 7hp. The guy said it works we will see. He is asking $275. And the high point is he said it will run off from 110 or 220v so I wont have to run a new line, if it would run off from 110 why would I wire it for 220v?
Don, do a little math based on these facts:
1 hp = 746 watts
6 hp = 4,476 watts
amps x volts = watts, or
4476 watts / 120 volts = 37.3 amps or
4476 watts / 240 volts = 18.65 amps

How many 40 amp, 120 volt circuits did you run when you wired your shop?
In other words, you are one hell of a lot better off to run a big motor on 240 volts because of the size wire you can use, if for no other reason. Besides the motor & all the wiring will run more efficiently and cooler on 240 volts. The "ability" of any kind of shop equipment to run off 120 volts is rarely a "high point", just a selling point for the unaware.

Dman033189
12-18-2004, 08:29 PM
Thanks cutter I am now "aware" do you think I would be ok if I just made two plugs off from the line my welder runs on? If I can't do that I will have to hack my wall a bit to run a line. I can kick myself now for not running more 220V lines.

Shade Tree Welder
12-18-2004, 08:34 PM
....How many 40 amp, 120 volt circuits did you run when you wired your shop? In other words, you are one hell of a lot better off to run a big motor on 240 volts because of the size wire you can use, if for no other reason. Besides the motor & all the wiring will run more efficiently and cooler on 240 volts. The "ability" of any kind of shop equipment to run off 120 volts is rarely a "high point", just a selling point for the unaware.

115 is a nearly useless voltage, 230 it tolerable, 460 is serviceable, the the lucky neighbors to the north have 575V ahhhhh really power. Or to quote Franzie, "You can run a 10Hp motor on doorbell wire."

Dman,

You should NEVER run wire in a shop behind the sheathing alway have it surface mounted. And pipe and wire is cheaper material cost and more reuseable than Romex. As you now have learned. Also as we preach regularly with sizing welding power sources, Go big! you can always turn it down the same goes for service power to your shop. GO BIG, you don't have to use it all, but some day you will need it all. The ComEd (power company) engineer thought I was nuts running a 400 amp service to my "Gargage/Shop" well me and one employee can pull 225 amps without much problem, and more if we work on it, so a 200 amp service would have been a problem.

cutter
12-18-2004, 08:39 PM
How big a 240v circuit did you run, Don? And how big is your line (wire) to your shop from the main?

The answer will be "yes, but" with the "but" meaning that you probably will have to run them one at a time. But this is worth coping with because now you're looking at a real compressor. Just don't get excited & let the man sell you something that is worn out or damaged.

Franz
12-18-2004, 08:39 PM
Don, can you say PROJECT TIME?

Make yourself a dang Cube Tap.
1 Stove plug pigtail, from Curbside Suppyl
2 stove outlets from electric supplyhouse
1 crappy box knocked out quick in the welding shop from JUNQUE
3 Blue wirenuts
3 feet of #6 wire
Rattle can paint.

Dman033189
12-18-2004, 09:49 PM
Does the other end of that cube tap plug into a 220 plug and split the power? Just trying to understand it alittle better. And thanks for all the help so far.

Tom Zachman just sent me an instant message clearing it up for me. I will have to get started making one soon.

Mike W
12-19-2004, 04:48 AM
The ad says it runs on 220. :rolleyes:

Dman033189
12-19-2004, 06:02 PM
Well I bought it the guy repainted the bottom half (he paints cars). It is running off from 110v right now for some reason it worked on my lines with 20 amp breakers but I am gonna convert it to 220v if I can figure out how. There is alittle ice on the outlet we drained it in 7 degree outdoors VERY cooled here.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Dman033189/DSCN1786Small.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Dman033189/DSCN1787Small.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Dman033189/DSCN1784Small.jpg

Franz
12-19-2004, 06:17 PM
Don, the connection diagram shold be on the inside of the coverplate where the wire goes into the motor. Changeout should be a matter of moving a few wires.

Just a thought here, since the guy paints cars, run a magnet over the fancy paint job to detect BONDO. Car painters are sneaky bustards when it comes to gettin rid of dented stuff.

7018
12-19-2004, 07:11 PM
Just a thought here, since the guy paints cars, run a magnet over the fancy paint job to detect BONDO. Car painters are sneaky bustards when it comes to gettin rid of dented stuff.[/QUOTE]



Hay I used to paint cars,And I don't think that I was a sneaky bustard.the peep new if there was bondo in the one's I done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :p

Dman033189
12-19-2004, 07:15 PM
I just remembered the guy told me that he drained it every day. How many of you guys use needle scalers? How well do they work?

cutter
12-19-2004, 07:20 PM
Don,

While you're looking for the wiring diagram, try to find the rating plate for that motor; I got a feeling it's a far cry from being a 6 hp if it will run on a 20 amp 120 v breaker. Look to see how many amps (at which voltage) she draws as well as how many hp they claim.

Dman033189
12-19-2004, 07:38 PM
240v/15A

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Dman033189/DSCN1791Small.jpg

Paychk
12-19-2004, 07:55 PM
The motor may have been changed, you want the rating plate attached directly to the motor.

Franz
12-19-2004, 10:09 PM
Paul I've seen a 240 Oxygen cylinder that a car painter repaired with BONDO after it got hit by a forklift, and the fortunate thing was the BONDO blew off before the cylinder got pumped to criticle pressure and went BANG. Any car painter worth adamn can hide plenty under a coat of bondo and paint.

Don, that set of numbers barely gets past 4½ horsepower. Any more, I won't even believe the nameplate numbers on a motor till I've run an Amprobe on the thing. Too much coniving has gone into motor horsepower ratings in the last 10 years.

Needle scalers are like any other tool, excellent in the right applications. One of my buds figures he saves 20 minutes on every set of disk brakes he does by using a needle scaler.
When it comes to chipping scale, and peening, they are fantastic. They are also useful for removing scaly rust, and cleaning concrete off steel sidewalk and curb forms.

Shade Tree Welder
12-19-2004, 10:10 PM
Don,

Based on the CFM I would guess it is a 1.5Hp motor. I doubt it has been changed based on the size of the head. I am guessing it is a one jug head.

I have a "real" 5Hp compressor in my shop with a double jug, single stage head that gives me right around 40 cfm at 90 psi. The motor draws 23.0 Amps at 240 volts under load.

A/C marketeers have givin' their compressors these way overrated claims of Hp based on some horse**** 200% motor rating that in the end turns out to be meaningless.

Shade Tree Welder
12-19-2004, 10:13 PM
Paul I've seen a 240 Oxygen cylinder that a car painter repaired with BONDO after it got hit by a forklift, and the fortunate thing was the BONDO blew off before the cylinder got pumped to criticle pressure and went BANG. Any car painter worth adamn can hide plenty under a coat of bondo and paint...

I better not get ahold of anybody ever doing that ... I'll shove that cylinder up his ass!!!

Scott V
12-19-2004, 10:21 PM
It's a three horse

Dman033189
12-19-2004, 10:24 PM
Well I figure it will get the job done it did take it a while to get up to pressure. And I am sure it is the factory motor. I was thinking about getting a needle scaler to remove slag but I guess a wire wheel does the job as good as any.

Franz
12-19-2004, 10:40 PM
Well I figure it will get the job done it did take it a while to get up to pressure. And I am sure it is the factory motor. I was thinking about getting a needle scaler to remove slag but I guess a wire wheel does the job as good as any.

Don, when Harbour Flotsum has the one on sale for $19- buy it, and give it a try. It's worth that to determine if it will make you money or not.
If you're talking about mill slag, a scaler ain't the way to go, but then, neither is a wire wheel. Grinders were made for scale removal.

Around 10 years ago, tool manufacturers took to a clever method of horsepower rating. The motor is hooked to a dyno, and the motor is loaded till it burns, blows apart, or twists it's shaft off. Just before catastrophic failure, amperage & voltage are calculated, and translated into what is advertised as horsepower. This method is completely bogus.
Thew same methodology is currently being used to market portable gensets with "Peak delivery" ratings over and above what the genset will actually deliver.

MotorDoctor
12-20-2004, 01:44 AM
[quote] Needle scalers are like any other tool, excellent in the right applications. One of my buds figures he saves 20 minutes on every set of disk brakes he does by using a needle scaler. [quote]
What does he use the scaler for when doing disc brakes? Never heard of that trick before.....

Franz
12-20-2004, 02:59 AM
[quote] Needle scalers are like any other tool, excellent in the right applications. One of my buds figures he saves 20 minutes on every set of disk brakes he does by using a needle scaler. [quote]
What does he use the scaler for when doing disc brakes? Never heard of that trick before.....

In this part of the country, we have a wonderful substance called corrosion that grows on the calipers, particularly in the grooves where the shoes ride.
You either need to chop it out, file it out, or media blast after removing the caliper from the car. Needle scaler replaces all those.
We also get a lot of corrosion on the beed flange of wheels that comes off real nice with a scaler.