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Old 11-23-2009, 03:33 AM
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Default Building a 20x30 pole barn~ Spring 2010

Well, the time has come to add some storage around this property. What's that you say? 9 buildings should be enough? I disagree! Haha! Backstory: My younger brother and myself/wife/child live at our childhood home. Our parents moved to WA and frequently travel back and fourth for holidays/events. With this economy it was in their best interest to wait for the housing market to decently recover and asked us to take care of the upkeep until they decide whats going to happen.

The main house and most buildings are over 100 years old and in constant need of work. Because of this we have... thousands of board feet of lumber, hardware, doors, windows, ect and all the tools needed to maintain the property. Our issue is both myself and brother are very quickly becoming hobby machinists and car mechanics. Due to this and the physical limitations of the existing shop, we have been planning a separate smaller structure to move all of our tools, equipment, and projects in to, along with having an automotive lift 2 post lift. There is also a major push for safety driving this, as sparks/grinding/welding/electrical fire all could cause a very quick end to the 140yr old shop and vehicles stored inside.

The idea then is to build a 20x30 pole barn. Due to local code, it will be built as a AG building. No permits are needed (I will be double checking this, however my neighbor put up his 30x50 with no permits required.) After it is up, we will pour a concrete floor and run power. Once a loft is built, storage will be shifted. Good lumber will be moved to my fathers cabinet/woodworking shop in WA and older period lumber from the other 6 or so storage buildings in to new racks in the middle section of the current shop. All tools, supplies, and equipment will be moved and our classic cars will get a new home inside the now cluttered bays of our existing shop. Finally both Model T's, our Desoto, Oldsmobile, and John Deere LA will have a safe home.

The building will be located behind the main shop in the SE corner of our property. As part of the "larger picture" we are redoing our driveway, main entrance, and parking area. We currently have a 13" wide gate that STILL gets hit monthly as people try to turn out of our currently congested driveway. The area being cleared is 60x60. This is mainly so we can park vehicles on a compacted gravel surface, instead of the mud... I am also planning on adding a 12x20 cement pad in the SW corner of the new building for our 1968 Airstream to sit on.

I spent the weekend clearing trees and still have quite a few to cut down. I am hoping to get it done before snow flies/mud rises. I will be contracting a backhoe from my Uncle to remove the stumps and clear the endless ivy which has attempted to break my ankles for years. After which I will order gravel, source a compactor, and borrow a bobcat with an augur bit. 20x30 should be MORE then sufficient with a 20x20 car care area and a 10x20 machine/tool area, which will have a loft of the same dimensions above it. I want 1 larger door, be it sliding or roll up and a single entrance door both on the same northern wall. The walls will be 14' tall with a 2' clear panel surrounding the exposed walls and 6 clear panels in the roof. I am planning full metal siding.

Here is where I need your guys help! There are many parts of this project I am comfortable with, even building my own trusses. However I have never finished concrete, poured a slab this big, or built an entire pole building from scratch. I am hoping some of the great minds here can answer some of my most basic questions.

1) Pouring the slab. I am wanting a 20x30 pad. Or 600sq ft. As I understand it, I need 11.1 cubic yards of concrete for a 6" slab. I will be installing a lift and want to make sure everything is ready for it. My questions to start with are what type of gravel and how much do I need? Is it best to dig down a few inches? Should I lay down a ground barrier cloth/plastic? What do I use for rebar, can I use mesh instead, if so what type? I plan on pouring up to 3" away from the posts to keep it a "pole barn", such as my neighbor just did.
Any good reading I should do on finishing? I have some contractor friends who will help with pouring and finishing. What would be a estimated cost? (Materials)

2) Estimated building costs. I can only research so much online sadly. Has anyone built a similar building? I am having the greatest difficulty calculating the metal siding and roofing costs. The posts and framing is very simple, I get a great deal on lumber and all said and done its going to be around $600.
I only have home depot to go off for the metal and I think they want $30 for a 32"x12' metal siding/roofing.

3) Suggestions?!

Haha. That's all for now and wish me luck.
I am looking to use this style of framing/construction as it is simplest in my mind.
http://www.cotrailriders.com/icwsTou...2C8A096FB1920D
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Old 11-23-2009, 05:10 AM
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You're a mighty ambitious young feller, spyder
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Originally Posted by the spyder View Post

1) Pouring the slab.
Read this, by all means. It may not cover all your specific questions but there is a wealth of experience in each of Don's building and concrete threads. Use DDA52's id to search out his long shop building thread too for.
You can probably learn more than you'll ever be able to use about rebar and reinforcing, related material.
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Originally Posted by the spyder View Post
3) Suggestions?!
1. Yes! Think bigger.
My little backyard shop is 24x30. It's barely big enough for me - no lift and no cars. Mine is so small because my lot is so small. Looks like you have room for more building.
You won't have room to cuss a cat let along, swing a cat.
Shops are like women's pants. Like Dolly said, "these pants weren't this tight 'til I put 'em on."

2. If you don't finish diagnosing and fixing that old air compressor before you get ***-deep in all this I'm gonna be pissed.
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:42 AM
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You are waisting a little. It is usually cheaper to build in numbers divisible by four. Your 20x30 could be a 20x32 for the same money.
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Old 11-23-2009, 07:55 AM
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get lots of help if you're doing the concrete work yourself.

DDA52s thread that cutter's linked above is great, read it a few times and then start thinking of questions you need to ask.
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD MAN View Post
You are waisting a little. It is usually cheaper to build in numbers divisible by four. Your 20x30 could be a 20x32 for the same money.
Well, I can fit that! Just have to tweak the drawings
Sadly we can not go any larger. It is at my folks request is only takes up as small of footprint as possible. It will be the only non historic building on the property.
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:31 PM
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I can't really help with the concrete, but when I re-did a 50+ year building for my shop here on the farm, steel ended up costing around $1000. It was under a grand, but not by enough to matter. My shop is 20x24, with an 11' foot high ceiling, and I covered interior walls, 1 24'x10', 1 19'x10', the ceiling, and the west facing exterior wall. All together, thats roughly 1100 sq. ft., purchased 3-4 years ago. I bought the mid grade steel sheet, basic white, not the premium stuff Menard's offered, and it has held up quite well. The exterior still looks good, and the inside is still nice and bright.
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Old 11-25-2009, 03:09 PM
chevyoneton chevyoneton is offline
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Concrete cost can be easily obtained by calling the redi-mix suppliers in your area. Concrete was sky high when I built a couple of years ago but has moderated a little.

You can build your own trusses or you can do what I did and see what the truss plant had laying around that somebody ordered and did not follow through on. This is how my shop ended up 34 feet wide (and yes, I would have preferred to have stayed with a 4’ increment) and even with them having to build a few more trusses to get the overall building length of 48’ I wanted I saved a great deal of money on the trusses.

On the advice of my truss supplier/engineer I spaced my trusses at 30” o.c. instead of the usual 24” (he actually said I could go 36”) to save a little more coin. I stood my 2X4 purlins up on top of the trusses instead of laying them flat and it worked great.

If you do not need a flat ceiling or if you desire more headroom (loft you say?) consider a scissor truss. Your truss supplier can easily make these from wood or there are also some metal “reverse scissor” trusses a see around here on ag buildings that depend on a ‘moment’ type connection off the posts/poles/columns that maximize center height at the expense of side-wall height.

On my last two sheds I special ordered from Lowes SM-Rib 26 gauge tin for the roofs. It is 36” wide (coverage) , reducing the number of vertical laps (leaks) over standard 2 foot tin and by ordering it I could get it the exact length I wanted so I had no horizontal laps. It was no more money per foot to special-order it the exact lengths I wanted which is a plus. No waste at the laps either so actually saved a little money. The 21’ long pieces were a little bit of trouble to install but every time we got one up and screwed down we had 63 square foot of roof covered!

For poles I used decommissioned power poles bought from the City Utilities bone yard. Back then they were 35 cents a foot. I used 6 per side so 12 poles at around 16’ to 17’ each (2-3 feet in the ground, longer poles on the down-hill side) cost $70 plus tax.

I have yet to pour the slab but with a 13’4” ceiling height (another odd dimension due to available materials) I can back the concrete truck inside the finished shed later.

You might consider using fiber-mesh for the slab (NOT edge or footer reinforcement) instead of wire mesh. The concrete costs a little more with the mesh but it sure beats messing around with rolls of wire. If you do decide to use wire check with COMMERCIAL building supply houses in your area for FLAT sheets of reinforcing wire. It comes 5 or 6 by 20 feet and beats the crap out of un-rolling the roll kind.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:08 PM
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I don’t know how old you are, but I have found that concrete work is a combination of bull work and finesse that I just don’t have and at my age never will attain.

I hire it out.

These are truss plans for DIY use.

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~mwps_.../tr_plans.html
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:43 PM
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Im a youngin

Well, great news. We will see if it pans out. My father has been around for the holidays and started to enquire more about the possibility of doing a long narrow shop instead of a 20x30. Something with at least 3 stalls, a 20x20 work area, and a new power drop. This is above and beyond what I was planning. I spoke to my neighbor who is going to come and help me level the area. This is going to be fun. So a 24x50? It will all depend once its cleared and I can measure it out.
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Last edited by the spyder; 12-30-2009 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:12 PM
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Extend the shop all the way back to the rear (left most) wall of the well tower and also move your "airstream pad" to the area between the existing shop & well tower.

You could also widen out the shop a bit more to be in front of the well tower to about 30' wide. If the well needs help, you could pull the airstream off the pad & get a derrick in there to pull it if needed. That still leaves you with plenty of room for parking.

Put your machine/welding/steel storage in the extension beside the well tower. Then all that floor space can be used for auto/equipment repair.
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